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Drain tubes... NY area - who has done them? tools?
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| Seafarer |
Posted on 02/04/10 - 12:27 AM
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I'm generally pretty handy, but I'm just not following how this repair is done even after reading many threads on the subject. My bilge tube has lost the external 'curl' and o-ring at the transom below the waterline. The tube itself seems to be in fine shape otherwise, but it concerns me having such an easy path for water intrusion.
Has anyone in the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area done this? Do you have the flaring tool (i have ball peen hammers aplenty) and the experience of working on your own boat? I'd love to pick your brain, or at worst case barter for your skill in doing the work.
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 02/04/10 - 8:36 AM
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I replaced 3 of the 5 tubes on my boat. Very easy job. There is an article on conducting a proper installation by Tom Clark. http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=42
Here is a link on what parts are required:
http://www.whalercentral.com/photogal...hoto_id=54
I borrowed a flaring tool for the job, but recommend calling sue at twin cities and purchasing it. This way you can take your time and if needed, can make future tube repairs.
Edited by HarleyFXDL on 02/04/10 - 8:36 AM
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
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| John Fyke |
Posted on 02/04/10 - 12:21 PM
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I pull the brass out and replace with schedule 40 pvc. Just epoxy them in. They become part of the boat and you never have to deal with them again.
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| themclos |
Posted on 02/04/10 - 2:06 PM
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Seafarer,
I have replaced a couple of my through-hulls and have a couple more to do this winter. I would be happy to touch base with you to share what I have learned.
I may have some brass left over and I have both the 1" and 1.25" flaring tools. I also have the corresponding o-rings. I would be happy to loan them to you.
What diameter is the through-hull you are looking to replace? It is possible it is in good shape and does not need replacement. With mine, the o-rings had disintegrated and the repairs were not to my satisfaction.
If you are reasonably handy, you will have no problem with this.
Dan
Edited by themclos on 02/04/10 - 2:08 PM
Dan
1986 22 Outrage Cuddy, 2002 225HP Optimax |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 02/04/10 - 2:56 PM
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Put a brand new tube in no matter what.
It doesn't cost that much and then you know you have a new one.
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 02/04/10 - 3:45 PM
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protek9543 wrote:
I pull the brass out and replace with schedule 40 pvc. Just epoxy them in. They become part of the boat and you never have to deal with them again.
What epoxy do you use? I've tested several on PVC and none I've tried make a good bond. Even sanding the PVC to give it some 'key' resulted in the epoxy easily peeling away.
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 02/04/10 - 4:35 PM
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John, I used a two part epoxy from the local hardware store. I haven't noticed any problems so far.
Edited by HarleyFXDL on 02/04/10 - 4:35 PM
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 02/04/10 - 6:22 PM
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PVC and adhesives don't usually work well. Even 5200 can be peeled off PVC fairly easily after its cured.
I gave up on PVC after warnings from a friend that does a lot of professional boat repair and based on my own tests. I eventually ended up using a length of brass tubing stock as a mandrel and wrapped it with fiberglass tape then applied resin to make fiberglass tubes. I then used resin to glue in the fiberglass tubes. After that was all done, I installed the brass tubes in the conventional manner. Now I know no matter if the o-ring seal fails or the brass just rots out, the hull is still about as water proof at the tube locations as I'll ever get it.
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| 95Outrage17 |
Posted on 02/04/10 - 8:48 PM
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JohnnyCW wrote:
I eventually ended up using a length of brass tubing stock as a mandrel and wrapped it with fiberglass tape then applied resin to make fiberglass tubes. I then used resin to glue in the fiberglass tubes. After that was all done, I installed the brass tubes in the conventional manner. Now I know no matter if the o-ring seal fails or the brass just rots out, the hull is still about as water proof at the tube locations as I'll ever get it.
Great idea! Any pics?
- Chris
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| JohnnyCW |
Posted on 02/04/10 - 9:59 PM
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Unfortunately no pics. I made the repair before I joined this forum.
One detail though I left out. I wrapped the brass tubing with wax paper before I wrapped the fiberglass tape. The wax paper made it easy to slide the fiberglass off once the resin cured.
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| MW |
Posted on 02/05/10 - 2:07 AM
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I used standard pvc pipe coated with 4200 on most of it. on the last 1" of both tube end's I used "Marine tex", and finished it with a finger dipped in mineral spirits, and wiped it clean. It turned out great. Upon inspecting the rotted tube that I removed, a co-worker pointed out that it was not "Brass" but, a standard 1" piece of copper heating pipe (a poor repair job from a previous owner).
Matt |
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| maxload |
Posted on 02/06/10 - 6:36 AM
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I had a hard time with this too but was eventually able to replace all tubes on my 1969 Nauset. I have a couple of recommendations ...read everything you can find on how to do it then buy extra tubes and practice a few times off the boat. I found this to be the kind of thing you have to do to understand, you can only read so much. I even made a plywood box and cut the appropriate size holes and put it in a vise. This way I could slide a tube in cut it off, slide on an o ring and practice with the airhammer. I worked out a lot of the bugs this way and had my technique down before i worked on the boat
Purchase the air hammer and make the modifications. It is definately worth it , it will make a hard job manageble. The flaring tool works well on tubes where the flared ends are 90 degrees to the tube but for any flare at an angle the air hammer is the call. Also buy the preflared tubes from a dealer or Sue at twin cities I found the brass to be so much easier to flare than the lenghts of straight brass tube I got from mcmaster carr.
I really struggled with the straight brass tubes I got from mcmaster carr because they were so "hard" - I split a couple even after annealing them and struggled even with the air hammer to flare them. The preflared tubes I could literally hold in one hand, angle the preflared side to match the interior angle perfectly with the air hammer in the other. I didn't even need to anneal them. Then I could slip the preflared end in the boat (I bedded it w 4200, clean up with acetone not denatured alcohol) With a friend backing up the inside holding the preflared end and o-ring tight to the hull I could easily flare the outside to match any angle on the hull.
good luck
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 02/06/10 - 7:51 AM
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I installed mine with the flaring tool from twin cities. Although the repair was not to my liking, it still came out good. I like Tom's idea of using a modified air hammer.
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 02/06/10 - 8:47 AM
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maxload,
I'm sorry you had a hard time but I am now wondering if you missed Rule # 1:
ANNEAL THE BRASS!
If you do not anneal the brass before attempting the flare, you will nine times out of ten split the tubing. Annealed, the brass rolls over quite nicely.
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| themclos |
Posted on 02/06/10 - 9:44 AM
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I purchased the brass and o-rings from McMaster. I read all of the articles about this work on this site and continuouswave. They articles were very comprehensive.
I have had no problems with the brass tube splitting.
I have used both a ball peen hammer and a portion of the flaring tool to create the initial flare. I created a frame to support the brass tube while I did this.
I have no doubt it would be easier with an air hammer, but I have found I can replace the tubes in a very satisfactory manner using a combination of the flaring tool and a ball peen hammer.
If you are reasonably handy, I do not see a reason to shy away from doing this yourself.
Dan
Dan
1986 22 Outrage Cuddy, 2002 225HP Optimax |
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| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 02/06/10 - 11:55 AM
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maxload wrote:
I really struggled with the straight brass tubes I got from mcmaster carr because they were so "hard" - I split a couple even after annealing them and struggled even with the air hammer to flare them. The preflared tubes I could literally hold in one hand, angle the preflared side to match the interior angle perfectly with the air hammer in the other. I didn't even need to anneal them. Then I could slip the preflared end in the boat (I bedded it w 4200, clean up with acetone not denatured alcohol) With a friend backing up the inside holding the preflared end and o-ring tight to the hull I could easily flare the outside to match any angle on the hull.
good luck
Tom, maxload wrote he DID anneal the tubes.
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
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| modenacart |
Posted on 02/06/10 - 3:42 PM
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Maybe he left too much length before trying to flare?
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 02/07/10 - 7:49 AM
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If the brass tubing is splitting, the brass is not annealed.
Having replaced a couple dozen drain tubes now, I have learned the importance of annealing the brass correctly. You need to heat the brass to a high enough temperature that actually anneals the brass while at the same time minimizing the heat transfer down the tubing which can lead to internal buckling of the tubing during the flaring process.
While it is true you do not need to heat the brass until it is glowing red, you will be safer if you get it very close. Initially I was heating the tubing until it turned a bluish color and then quenching it but I sometimes had trouble with it not being soft enough.
I now try to heat the end of the rube until it *just begins* to turn red, then stop. I also minimize the heat transfer by holding the tubing with a soaked towel which acts as a heat sink to limit the annealing to the very end where the flaring will occur. Hold the torch tip so it points slightly away from the end of the tubing instead of pointed down it; that helps too.
Some more bits of advice (that I have offered before but are worth repeating): Buy extra tubing. It is perfectly reasonable to expect a mistake or two. Brass tubing is cheap and you should really have some extra on hand in case you mess up.
Remember, do your longest tubes first so if you do mess up, you can recycle the tube on another, shorter location.
If you are ordering some tubing from McMaster-Carr and need three feet, order six feet. But do NOT order a six foot length, order two thee foot lengths. The shipping for one, or two, three footers is about the same but a single six footer is MUCH more expensive to ship.
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| SeaLevel |
Posted on 02/08/10 - 7:04 AM
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I recently replaced the drain tube in my splashwell with brass. I got the flaring tool from Sue at Twin Cities. I got the tube and O-rings from McMaster-Carr. I already had an air hammer. The only problem I found was that the flaring tool only made a 90 degree flare and did not put that return curl on the flare that helps hold the O-ring from spreading. After making the initial flare with the flaring tool I gently tapped the outside edge of the flare with a small hammer evenly all around just enough to put that little bit of curl on it. I put the tube in the hole, put the O-ring on the outside and marked the tube on the outside of the O-ring while putting pressure on the inner flare. I then added 1/8 of an inch to that line and cut the tube and annealed the brass. I used the threaded rod to compress the flaring tool for the second flare after packing everything with 5200 and cleaning the excess. The tool once again made a 90 degree flare. I then gently tapped the outer edge of the second flare with the small hammer to put the curl on it. I have found that cutting the tube the proper length and annealing the brass is critical to the installation. The installation looks "Factory" and I only had one practice run that I wasn't satisfied with because I cut the tube a little too long.
"It's just a forty eight year old Whaler but it's all mine"
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