|
LOTS of water in fuel tank
|
| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 9:46 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 917
Comments:
30
Joined: 07/24/07
|
I went to take my boat out yesterday on it's maiden voyage and low and behold, it would not start. I checked and there was alot of water in the water seperator. I found out that no fuel was getting to the engine, so I started messing around with the fuel system. I hooked up an electric fuel pump and removed about 7 gallons of water! The marina that had the boat over the winter and installed the engine removed about 5 gallons of water! Could it be that the hull is so water logged that it contained 12 gallons of water? That would be about 90 lbs of water! Is this possible? I guess until I have the chance to replace the piece of swiss cheese I call a fuel tank, I will run a remote tank to salvage the summer season.
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
| |
|
|
| RevengeFamily |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 10:23 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 192
Comments:
2
Joined: 06/21/08
|
Kev,
Your tank is down inside what I call the "fuel tank bilge". Plenty of water gets down inside the foam surrounding the tank. I pulled my tank last fall only because I wanted to get rid of the foam that was surrounding it and keeping it constantly wet. Luckily my tank was not leaking. Now I have a diaphram pump mounted on board to remove any water that gets down in the fuel tank bilge. Works like a charm...
Norm
|
| |
|
|
| Narragansett Outrage |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 10:40 AM
|
Member
Posts: 21
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/25/06
|
Sounds like you definitely have a leak in the tank!
I just got through pulling the tank on my '84 22' Outrage; the sludge inside it was cutting off the fuel supply to my old 235 (not good to do too often), and I finally got sick of running off of the ten gallon Moeller.
Had to remove all the foam around it (pretty big jo . I replaced it with a new tank, but rather than re-foaming, I shimmed it with 1/4" King Starboard strips on the bottom, and 3/4" Starboard strips at intervals on the side. I then put a brass drain tube from the fuel cavity into the livewell (with a stopper on the livewell side).
Am hoping to get it all in the water again this weekend, if it would just stop raning here in Rhode Island...
|
| |
|
|
| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 11:06 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 917
Comments:
30
Joined: 07/24/07
|
I pulled the cover that the pick up goes through. The gasket was shredded. Where can I get another gasket? What material is it made of?
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
| |
|
|
| Narragansett Outrage |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 11:38 AM
|
Member
Posts: 21
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/25/06
|
The pick up or the sending unit? My pick up tube was welded into place. If it's the sending unit, the gasket comes with the new sending unit (West Marine, anout $50). If it's the pick-up tube, you can probably purchase some rubber gasket material to cut to shape at an auto parts store, or use form-a-gasket.
|
| |
|
|
| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 12:26 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 917
Comments:
30
Joined: 07/24/07
|
I looked into it, the gasket is made of Viton. Viton is a VERY expensive material, about $50 a sq/ft. Permatex #2 will work till the new tank arrives.
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
| |
|
|
| Blackduck |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 12:43 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 519
Comments:
0
Joined: 02/25/06
|
Kevin,
If I were you, unless you can without question, find and fix the leak, leaks, I would go with your plan to use on deck fuel tanks. One of the quickest ways to kill a 2 cycle engine, is to run it lean, and thats what running fuel with water in it does. I would not trust that tank, even with the filter. Go get a couple of plastic tanks, and replace your tank when you can.
Walter Reynolds
1973 Boston Whaler 16 Nauset 90 HP Yamaha |
| |
|
|
| RevengeFamily |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 12:51 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 192
Comments:
2
Joined: 06/21/08
|
I agree with Walt... (Blackduck). That's a sure way to kill atwo stroke.
I replaced the gasket with material from the auto parts store. It is holding up well. My concern was the creapy ethanol in the fuel. The owner of the auto parts store assured me it could withstand the new fuels.
Norm
|
| |
|
|
| Narragansett Outrage |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 12:52 PM
|
Member
Posts: 21
Comments:
0
Joined: 05/25/06
|
Blackduck wrote:
Kevin,
If I were you, unless you can without question, find and fix the leak, leaks, I would go with your plan to use on deck fuel tanks. One of the quickest ways to kill a 2 cycle engine, is to run it lean, and thats what running fuel with water in it does. I would not trust that tank, even with the filter. Go get a couple of plastic tanks, and replace your tank when you can.
I second that.
|
| |
|
|
| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 2:17 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 917
Comments:
30
Joined: 07/24/07
|
I agree, I have a 12 gal SS tank that used to be in my montauk. I will use that until I can remove the main tank. I expected some work, but not this much so soon. Thanks guys for the support.
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
| |
|
|
| clemson |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 5:56 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 15
Comments:
0
Joined: 11/09/08
|
Lets no forget the evils of ethanol in fuel. If the fuel has sat for any length of time, it will absorb the water in the tank due to condensation or possibly pumped in from the gas pump. Once the Gas/ ethanol mixture absorbs enough water the ethanol/ water will fall out out solution. This is called phase separation. There are numerous articles on the web detailing this. At that time the only thing to do is pump out the gas and 'water'.
Ethanol is a blend of gasoline and ethyl alcohol. Ethyl alcohol is an excellent solvent and is hydroscopic, that is it adsorbs water. Acting as a solvent, ethanol can damage the sealants used on older fiberglass fuel tanks. The dissolved sealants can be ingested by the engine which can cause damage and fuel leaking from a tank into the bilge is a fire hazard. Fuel tanks built of other materials are not immune to having a problem. Ethanol has a cleaning effect on tanks that releases fine metallic particles which will pass through most fuel filters. The dissolved metals will clog fuel injector nozzles and carburetors. Ethanol added to a fuel tank contaminated with water will cause expensive repairs. The water in the tank will combine with the ethyl alcohol to produce a noncombustible layer of liquid in the tanks that will stop most engines cold.
http://boatingsailing.suite101.com/article.cfm/ethanol_fuel_problems_for_boaters#ixzz0K3hzRYS0&D
The jury is still out on the definitive protection plan for ethanol fuel use. The following are some suggestions that have helped other boaters:
* Boats built prior to 1984 should have their fiberglass fuel tanks and lines replaced with modern equivalents before ever using ethanol. This will immediately eliminate almost certain failure of these older fuel tanks and components.
* Historically boaters were told to leave their fuel tanks full in the winter. Initially the industry thought that it might be more prudent to empty the tanks and thoroughly clean them prior use in the following boating season. BoatU.S. is recommending that this practice not be followed.
* Use a good water separating fuel filter and carry several spare cartridges for it. Racor Filter manufactures a good product for this purpose.
* Try to avoid mixing gasoline blended with MBTE and ethanol. Use up the MBTE blended gasoline in your tank and insure the tank is clean prior to adding ethanol to it.
* Ethanol fuel has a very short shelf life compared to the gas we are used to burning. Limit your fuel onboard to what's needed in the next two weeks.
It appears the best defense for boaters in the use of ethanol fuel is to keep your fuel tank clean of water and use adequate filters. There may be more improvements in engine and fuel system technology that will address this problem.
Thank our wonderful Federal government for mandating ethanol in our fuel.
|
| |
|
|
| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 6:00 PM
|
Site Owner
Personal Page
Personal Album
Photo Albums
Project Albums
Posts: 11434
Comments:
452
Joined: 03/18/05
|
Harley,
Remember, that 150 hp engine will burn about 6 gallons an hour if your pushing it.
12 gallons won't last long.
I see by one of the photos in your project album that you have Captains Chairs.
http://www.whalercentral.com/userphot...oto_id=665
If you had an RPS, I would recommend to put two 12 gallon tanks under it just like the Montauks have. That would give you 24 gallons which of course would be better just 12 gallons.
|
| |
|
|
| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 6:11 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 917
Comments:
30
Joined: 07/24/07
|
Well for now, so the summer is not wasted, I will run the 12-gal tank and keep a 3-gal tank as a spare. I sucked out all the water from the tank and took the boat out today. It seemed to run fine then about 1/4 mile out the check engine alarm sounded. I shut the motor down and noticed the fuel bulb was compressed (blockage in the fuel line). I idled back to the ramp and when I got home, I hooked up the portable 3-gal tank. Seemed to run fine. Now I need to find a place to dump 40 gals of tainted fuel.
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
| |
|
|
| mattgeiger |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 6:35 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 310
Comments:
2
Joined: 02/22/07
|
A lawn mower will run on some cruddy gas  - I know from experience. Hope you have a lot of grass.
Don't sweat the issue though. Par for the course on these things.
Edited by mattgeiger on 07/01/09 - 6:36 PM
Cape Dory 28
Hobie 20 Miracle
A Class Catamaran |
| |
|
|
| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 7:18 PM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 917
Comments:
30
Joined: 07/24/07
|
A couple of gallons here and there in the 2006 F-350 should be a good place of the fuel. The truck gets about 10-12 MPG's, so I don't think it will notice.
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
| |
|
|
| sraab928 |
Posted on 07/01/09 - 7:36 PM
|
Member
Project Albums
Posts: 1282
Comments:
13
Joined: 12/27/05
|
Hey Kevin,
The water can come from many sources. Last summer on my last Grady White I had about 6 gallons of water in my fuel tank. The culprit? I leaking rubber o ring on the fuel fill. Every rain or wash of the boat water was just going right in.
Another culprit can be an improperly run vent line - The need to have a trap in them so to speak - The need to be coiled before they exit. Or at least so I am told.
If the tank itself has holes in it you should also have gas in your foam. As was the case with my 25 Outrage. Getting the tank out is a major pain in the rear. They are really packed in there with foam.
At the end of the day you are probably right to run the portable tank to salvage the season and replace the belly tank in the off season.
Scott
1974 21' Revenge w Mercury 200 ProXS V8 |
| |
|
|
| HarleyFXDL |
Posted on 07/02/09 - 6:38 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Project Albums
Posts: 917
Comments:
30
Joined: 07/24/07
|
I plan on replacing all the hoses with the tank to avoid further fuel problems. There is a fuel smell when I remove the deck plates. Upon further inspection, I did notice the boat sat very low in the water. The splash well was filled a quarter to half way.
As this is my first Outrage, do you leave the plug in or out of the sump? I would assume you would leave it out so the rain water would drain, which leads me to my next statement. While idling away from the dock, I noticed a decent amt of water in the sump, about and inch or two from the deck. This water would run through the fuel line tunnel to the tank pickup. When I popped the deck plate there was water covering the fuel pickup. Had I not sealed the pickup, I could see an awful lot of water getting into the tank. My first guess would be I have ALOT of water in the hull to make it sit so low.
Edited by HarleyFXDL on 07/02/09 - 6:42 AM
Kevin
1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp.
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
"Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman." |
| |
|
|
| Derwd24 |
Posted on 07/02/09 - 6:54 AM
|
Member
Posts: 1607
Comments:
9
Joined: 05/09/07
|
Sounds like it may be time to get the boat weighed to see where things stand with the overall weight.
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
| |
|
|
| WhalerDan |
Posted on 07/02/09 - 7:19 AM
|
Member
Personal Page
Posts: 245
Comments:
1
Joined: 11/13/05
|
Harley, I copied this from craigslist a while back -- Bill 631-897-2783 -- he ran an ad saying he could dispose of fuel and empty tanks. I wouldn't want to mess with fuel that could be contaminated with dirt and stuff.
Also, call Rob at Raybo for some advice.
Good luck.
|
| |
|
|
| Phil T |
Posted on 07/02/09 - 9:28 AM
|
Administrator
Personal Page
Personal Album
Project Albums
Posts: 6994
Comments:
6
Joined: 03/26/05
|
Kevin - It sounds as if the foamed tank cavity is totally saturated with water. The bottom of the cavity is below the tunnel.
The weight of saturated foam could explain the squat.
I would run with the plug in and have a bilge pump.
I take it the rain has stopped? Not here but that is not the subject at hand.
|
| |
|
