1. Use the full 4 digit year for everything you are asking your question about. Example: 1962, 1988, 2000, 2011
2. Include the correct name of your Whaler model. Example: Montauk 17, Montauk 170, Outrage 26, Outrage 260
3. Include the length when necessary. Example: 16, 17, 18, 20, 22
4. Do not post your email address anywhere on this site as it is already in your user profile.

13 foot 1973 Project
rarecatch	#1  Posted on 03/28/09 - 6:24 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 9 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/28/09	I am new to the site and preparing to retire so I have purchased two old toys for retirement. One is a BW 16SL, not famous but fits or family needs for Lake Norman NC. It is being professionally redone at Chesapeake Whalertowne. The other is a BW 13’ 1973 (not sure of model at this time), this will be my training project. One is the family/wife’s boat the other is the kids and friends boat. I would like to get a 3rd boat as my fishing boat, for large lakes and close-in costal use in the Carolina’s OBX and in the Chesapeake Bay (the16sl may also be able to handle this). I was thinking a prior 2002 Montauk would be best do to less weight, better on fuel and still plenty of room plus shallow draft vs. a late 80’s 18’ outrage at around 1250 lbs. Any advice on this would be appreciated. Will try to post image on personal page. 1. Is this a 13’ Sport? 2. Is it considered self draining? 3. Is it supposed to have a wire tunnel or something to pass the wires to the red-green bow light? 4. Is Marine Bondo durable, and hard enough to apply in dips on the bottom after glass work to make things flat and smooth? Will gel coat or epoxy paint adhere properly? 5. Since the floor is rough textured what is the best way to prepare it to accept the new finish? I would like the new inside to be non-slip but not so textured that it is painful on feet or knees as the kids slid back in the boat after swimming. 6. I would like to place a heavy duty rub-rail. I am not sure the present rub rail is original so I cannot use it as an example for what I need. 7. I have see rivets or holes in some of the sites rebuilding of rub-rails. Should I place new holes or rivets ( I am not sure what they are) in different locations or are they pre-determined by the rub-rail shape? Thank You for your advice and expertise.
John Fyke	#2  Posted on 03/29/09 - 6:34 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1307 Comments: 0 Joined: 09/06/06	Doesn't sound like retirement to me but you will have plenty of satisfaction doing the work and enjoying the boat. You have many questions that are covered on this site. Do a search and you will find what your looking for.
kamie	#3  Posted on 03/29/09 - 7:10 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	Welcome to WC 1. not sure but it looks like it started life that way. 2. The hull is, not sure from the photo's where the bilge pump is located 3 nope. the wires for the bow light run under the rubrail. Wires run from the console switch to the stern of the boat, then between the rubrail and the receiver tract up to the bow. There was a bus bar simular to your photo 7 in the stern which connected the wires for the bow lights and also the stern light. It was usually on the starboard side of the boat. 4./5. the non-skid is not as hard on your feet as your imagining. I walk around on my 18 with no shoes all summer. You will appreciate the non-skid when the boat is wet and your feet don't slide and toss you out. 6./7. Contact twin Cities Marine, site sponsor for all your whaler needs. they have the rub rail that will fit the boat. Fill the old rivet holes with marine-tex or west system epoxy, then drill new holes or use SS screws. Rub rails are best replaced during the summer when it's hot. Makes them easier to bend around the hull Are you really bent on painting the boat? If so, you should probably use awlgrip and follow the instructions for surface prep. If your not, it's amazing how restoreable gelcoat is with a little elbow grease. It is also an amazing durable product. If the 13 is going to be for kids, I would stick to gelcoat. It's easier to fix chips in gelcoat then it is to repaint. Strip the hull and see what your dealing with, before you make your final decision. As for the 3rd boat, I would go for the 18 Outrage. the 18 can float in 10 inches of water with the engine tilted up, the Montauk floats in 9. If you plant to take the boat on the Bay or out in the ocean, remember it's the weather you come home in, not what you go out in that matters. For short trips, you could use the 16 until you decide which way to go, just keep an eye on the weather.
rarecatch	#4  Posted on 03/30/09 - 1:35 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 9 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/28/09	Thanks for the replies. Protek9543, I have see a lot on the whaler sites for all this info and yes I did find much of this but I did not see what I asked for, details like no one mention the wire under the molding. I would find this out after the removal, but I am trying to plan ahead and workout problem and located purchase locations and parts prior to starting. I am green with boats but I am OK with tools in general, did things like putting hemi’s in 36 ford… Your correct I do not plan to sit in a rocker for retirement, I would like to do what I did not have the time and opportunity in the pass. Kamie, thank you for going down the list one by one. I did not do a good job on placing the web images. I will try to correct and make cleaner images in the future. Thanks for the wires under the rub rails. I have seen the posted rail replacement but no details on how to rivet the rail? I have not seen much info on what the bus bar was for or why no waterproof cover in an open location. I do want a non-skid just not sure what brand or type is best. I would like all work to be durable and proper one time so it will last. I am not set on paint. I also thought gel would be easy to wash and clean. However, one on the boats maybe in the water a lot during the summer. Does that require the paint as some say or will it clean out at the end of season if it is fresh water vs. salt water? I was thinking of sanding, filling, plugging, bondo, making all smooth then some type of primer and spraying gel inside (no slip) and out. Is the gel white or is the primer what is white then the gel is clear? Yes, I have been trying to pinpoint what late 80’s outrage came with no-wood. I would like to find a 1250 pounder with all gel coat if they made them at 1250 pounds. I do not what to go above 150 hp. Thank you for the warning on the returning weather, safety first.
jquigley	#5  Posted on 03/30/09 - 2:45 PM
Member Posts: 269 Comments: 1 Joined: 07/17/07	Be careful with epoxy products for filling if you plan to gelcoat. It is ok under epoxy paints, but gelcoat is polyester based and will not bond properly to the epoxy fillers. Use a poly based filler if you want to gelcoat, otherwise you may be forced to paint. Edited by jquigley on 03/30/09 - 3:00 PM
kamie	#6  Posted on 03/30/09 - 3:25 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	The early 13s had wires molded into the hull, in the 70's they switched over. When redoing a 13 of any age it's best to run new wires to the bow light. To rivet on the rail, you stretch and clamp (or have a friend hold) the track to the hull while you drill thru the track and the hull and apply a rivet of the appropriate size. the rivets come with the rubrail kit. The same is true if you use ss screws, just a different size hole, and you then screw the track to the hull. No idea on why whaler didn't supply a cover for the bus bar. The area gets splashed, but doesn't usually stay wet so that could have been the reason. As for non-skid, my only other experience on a small (25 foot or under) boat was a boat custom made for a diving trip I took. The non-skid was pathetic and when you have water, defog, sunscreen all mixed on the deck we were slipping all over. Even folks who had wet suit booties that have rubber soles for walking in such an environment were slipping all over. I was really looking for the firm traction of whaler non-skid Before you make a decision on which way to go, pull the interior out of the boat and take stock of what you have. If you don't have a lot of serious cracks or holes to fix, you may get away with rubbing compound or buff Magic. restoring non-skid I have had good luck using it on my 18 footer and hope to use it on my 13 when I get a bit farther along. On the 18 it has not totally restored the gelcoat to factory color, but it's close and it really shines nice. I only know this because I have access panels that were never removed, so the gelcoat never oxidized behind them. If your going to leave the boat in the water, you should use anti-fouling paint on the hull in salt water. If you don't nasty little critters called barnacles will attach to the hull, making fall cleanup a real pain. Gelcoat has all the color. there are plenty of threads on doing both gelcoat repair, and spraying gelcoat. The mid 80's outrages had fiberglass gunals as an option, buy the late 80's early 90's they were standard and teak was an option. The boat was renamed the Outrage 19 in 1990 but still retained the same hull as the earlier 80's models. Once you get the interior out and the hull washed, take more photo's and ask more questions. That's why WC exists.
rarecatch	#7  Posted on 03/30/09 - 5:20 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 9 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/28/09	Jquigley, how do I tell if prior fills are epoxy or polyester? Do you know of a primer or cover coat that can be applied to prior repaired areas to insure a good base for gel coating? Kamie, I plan to run all new wires and connectors at all locations. All the rivets I have used go from one side to the other and not a dead-end. As long as they come with the kit and it has instruction I should be fine. Is it better to use the rivets or buy new SS screws ? Do the rivets get poly bonded in place? Is marine-tex a poly base and not an epoxy? Should I marine-tex rivet or SS screws , what size screws are best if I need to go that route? I will contact Twin Cities Marine for all materials. I did plan to remove all the interior, everything that can be removed. I can see that I need to spray a new coat on the interior. It has many spider cracks, lots of prior glass repair (that was not coated with any top coat. You can see the brown look of clear glass work and really thick glass matt on the gunals and other locations. That is why I need to place some type of primer coat that will bond gel to epoxy or poly repairs. Good to know that the gel coat has all the color, I can spray as directed and cover all repairs. No boat will stay in salt water more than the day of use then washed. In the water boat will be in fresh water. Thanks for all the info. Will take new images when all the interior is out.
kamie	#8  Posted on 03/30/09 - 6:21 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	rarecatch wrote: Kamie, I plan to run all new wires and connectors at all locations. All the rivets I have used go from one side to the other and not a dead-end. As long as they come with the kit and it has instruction I should be fine. Is it better to use the rivets or buy new SS screws ? The hull is not a dead-end. You are actually placing the rivets from the outside of the gelcoat to the inside of the mat. You can't see it because the hull is filled with foam. Rivets vs SS screws is a matter of choice. Not sure if one holds better than the other, SS screws are easier to remove if you need to, but it's not all that hard to drill out the rivets Talk to Sue at Twin Cites, they have the kits with rivets or screws, you decide.
rarecatch	#9  Posted on 03/30/09 - 6:59 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 9 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/28/09	Thank You, will do.
Derwd24	#10  Posted on 03/30/09 - 8:37 PM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	Jquigley, you're correct in that there won't be a primary (chemical) bond between the gelcoat and underlying epoxy if used for a repair, but unless you have the poly repair material and the gel cure at the same time, you won't get a primary bond then either, only mechanical. If prepped correctly, epoxy can be used successfully under gelcoat. Dave - 1983 Outrage 22
jquigley	#11  Posted on 03/31/09 - 5:08 PM
Member Posts: 269 Comments: 1 Joined: 07/17/07	I only repeat what I hear form Spectrum and other maufacturers. They say do not use their gelcoat over epoxy products, as do some of the epoxy products makers, like Marine Tex. Marine Tex is an Epoxy base, yes. If you want to gel over the epoxy, go ahead. I wouldn't, nor would I do fiberglass repairs with poly resin over epoxy resins. Epoxy over poly, on the other hand is ok. So epoxy paint over Marine Tex will be fine, Epoxy paint over Poly resins will be fine, will gel be ok over Marine Tex, or other epoxy resins? I dunno. I wouldn't do it because I have been advised against it from several parties. I don't know how you would tell what the repair product was. The only way to be sure is to grind it all out and do it over again yourself.
rarecatch	#12  Posted on 03/31/09 - 7:50 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 9 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/28/09	OK, so what we need here is a product that will act as a bonding agent for epoxy to poly? Then what? You need to re-apply a poly primer and then before it cures you apply the gel coat? Many boats are sanded and re-gel coated, so how are they getting it done. I would think the many older boats have many blends of epoxy are poly repairs done by different owners.
Derwd24	#13  Posted on 03/31/09 - 7:54 PM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	http://www.epoxyworks.com/22/polyeste...ester.html Dave - 1983 Outrage 22
jquigley	#14  Posted on 04/01/09 - 9:24 AM
Member Posts: 269 Comments: 1 Joined: 07/17/07	Nice article. You would expect the people who manufacture it to tout it though. No doubt West has good products and a solid track record. I had concerns so I went another way. This seems to affirm it can be done, but I did not have the knowledge of the chemistry to challenge the advice I had received.
Bake	#15  Posted on 04/01/09 - 9:55 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 902 Comments: 8 Joined: 01/30/06	I use 3m premium filler. It spreads like peanut butter and does not have as many pin holes. it sands of nice and provides nice base for finish coat. I used it on my 15 project years ago and have not found any of it cracking or anything. That has been about 8 years.