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It was such a nice day when I left this AM...
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 08/19/08 - 4:47 PM
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I have our Outrage moored about 800-1000 feet off the beach, pretty much in open water, but it's always fared well. It seems while I was away today, a serious squall moved in and really churned up the seas, produced some serious downpours along with very large swells.
When I got back late this afternoon, took a look out, and I knew right away she was sitting very heavy. Long story short, got out to her and the boat was flooded, the stern was so heavy that the ocean water was level with the top of the transom, and flooding in on most every swell.
Seems the bilge pump was overwhelmed for some reason and it eventually killed the #1 battery. So I switched to both batts, started her up, but the bilge output was weak and not doing much. Every time I went down to the back of the boat, it sank noticably lower in the water, so I couldn't spend much time there with the wave action. Tried a number of different things, and after about an hour of no luck, decided to pull the rear drain plug. It was flooded anyway, so I figured it couldn't get any worse eh?
Now this Whaler is heavy with water in the foam already, but at that point I had no choice. After about 10-15 minutes, I was happily surprised to see the top of the transom about 4" above the water, it was no longer taking in water on every swell, and the deck was almost water free (it was nearly up to the console before)! I was single handed and the swells are still signficant, or I would have taken her out to drain while moving. But the risk of capsizing with such a heavy boat in those seas felt all too real. When I then went to the back, she'd still take on some water on the larger swells, so I ended up just leaving the plug out, and am now hoping the seas calm down as she'll be OK if they do.
With the transom and splashwell to rear fish well plugs out, he water level seemed to settle about 1" below the lower rim of the top of the rear fish well. Does anyone know approximately about where this level should be with the plug out?
I'm wondering if between the heavier weight of the new Etec, the second added battery back there, and the heavy hull, that maybe the big swells were dipping the transom under and that's what lead to all this flooding? Maybe if I had the plug in between the splash well and the fish well (where the pump is) this wouldn't have happened?
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I'm pretty surprised this happened and would like to prevent it from occurring again....
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Jeff |
Posted on 08/19/08 - 5:12 PM
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Dave,
It is easy with a heavy rain for the boat to flood the decks. It happpened once with my 22 while at the dock. I left the plugs in and there was no bilge pump at the time. After about an hour storm where the rain was like a Monsoon the boat flooded to the point of the top of transom was an inch above the water line. I just dropped a pool drain pump in the boat's splashwell and gave it 15 minutes.
When I pulled the rear sump drain on the 22 it only filled up to the point where the notches or ledges are that go into the trapezoidal shape of the splashwell.
While moored where the waves ever crashing over the bow? I had that happen once with our Montauk. Story goes (posted it before so sorry if you have already heard it), I had 4 people and gear in the boat and I had a bit of no wake to get through to get to the open water. If the plug would have been pulled during that time there would have been a lot of in the cockpit. In fact we never ran that boat with the plug out. I still leave the plug in when my Newport is in the water. Running out the the landing area to water was fairly calm and we got to the destination, anchored in a cove out of the wind and waves, unloaded, and hiked around the island. now it was time for me to head back and leave the others there. Wind had shifted and now the once protected cove was getting large rollers coming head on into it. There were a few waves that were rolling over the bow into the cockpit. So I pulled the plug and began to motor out. The boat was very unstable and I had to keep the boat going into the waves. On the way out I took two more waves that rolled into the cockpit and now it was really flooded. To the point that when I tried to power on to plane all of the water rushed to the stern and some even went over the transom. The bow went straight up in the air and the motor started to go under. I backed down and kept pumping overboard while still taking on water every once and a while. Fortunately the bilge was able to help dewater quicker than it was coming in. I know the thru hull alone would have not been able to dewater as fast. Once most of the water was out I was able to turn between the wave crests and run with the waves home. I have never been that afraid in a boat as that day. It was also the day that truly sold me on the safety of Whalers. While most boats would have just sank the Whaler kept going. It took a lot of work to keep it going into the waves and keep it right side up but, it did it.
Looking back maybe I should have just left it anchored and tried to dewater it there....maybe. But, the waves were building and they were rooling over the bow at a faster frequency. Hey, I was a 21 year guy who thought it's a Whaler it is not going to sink so why not try to put it on plane without the plug and bilge on. I was totally blind sided with the unstability I encountered. You live, you learn.
1993 23' Walkaround Whaler Drive |
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| joninnj |
Posted on 08/19/08 - 5:58 PM
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Guys, just something to think about...
This could be much simpler than you guys may think. The screen in the bilge may have be completely clogged... Thus killing the batteries especially if you were getting lots of splash over the transom or sides. I have a rule 750 w/auto switch installed. I installed this this over two years ago and never bothered with it since. I had the same prob few weeks ago... Battery was stone cold dead... we had lots of rain in the NE. After getting it starting (replaced the battery) still very very weak output on the pump.
I un-snapped the pump then the screen...it was so densely clogged almost water tight....
The screen will not need big chunks of stuff to clog it. Small particles could do it as well.
Just a thought....
Edited by joninnj on 08/19/08 - 6:07 PM
Jon in NJ
Many other boats and outboards in my boating history
The Whaler is the one I like the best!!! |
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 08/19/08 - 10:37 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Jeff, hadn't read your story before, very similar to my experience today. I felt if I were to try and motor forward with all that water in, it would all go to the stern and be unweildy in the swells. Having the T-top doesn't seem to help either when the water's sloshing around in heavy seas. Not a great feeling being so helpless out there.
And thanks for the info on the water level in the sump. The seas have picked up again (marine forecast just changed from calm seas the rest of the week to a small craft 3' seas advisory through tomorrow afternoon), but if it calms down, I should be able to see where it settles out. What a relief though to have even a heavy Whaler still have some self-bailing ability, and pretty cool to see it still work after 25 years of service...
Good point Jon, I'll check that tomorrow, thanks. When I switched to both batt's and started the motor, I expected better flow out of the pump but wasn't sure with one of the batt's being dead.
I've also got to check my oil tank for water (any ideas on the best way to do that?) and am considering moving the batt's and oil tank into the center console to both get them out of the water if this happens again, and to also get some weight forward....
Edited by Derwd24 on 08/19/08 - 11:11 PM
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Blue_Northern |
Posted on 08/20/08 - 10:44 AM
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Dave - I moved 2 batteries into my console on the Montauk. I love the difference when taking off out of the hole. It really helps keep the nose down and seems to make the boat ride a little better. I put both of mine to the starboard side to help with the balance of the boat at high speeds. I get a pretty solid prop induced lean at top end if I am in the boat solo. The extra weight on that side really helped out.
Rob
1973 Outrage/Lo-Pro Conversion |
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| Blue_Northern |
Posted on 08/20/08 - 11:11 AM
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By the way, I can second what Jeff said about the rain water filling the boat. I was out wading fishing a few months ago and had the boat anchored 100 yds away when a summer shower came through. We were fishing a tournament and catching during the rain (no lightning) so fished right through a couple 15 minute showers. When we got back to the boat it was holding a solid 3" of water. I can only imagine what a heavy rain with the plugs in could produce. I might add that I have a bilge but the auto feature is not hooked up since I do not leave the boat on the water.
Edited by Blue_Northern on 08/20/08 - 11:13 AM
Rob
1973 Outrage/Lo-Pro Conversion |
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| JMount |
Posted on 08/20/08 - 3:14 PM
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Is your boat anchored or tethered to a buoy? When it looks like the weather may get bad make sure there is a real long tether if to a buoy or alot of scope on the anchor. This happened a couple of years ago to a friends boat while we were in a salmon derby. I made sure I had a long tether to the buoy so it could ride out 4 -5 ft waves and it rode like a duck - my friend wasn't so fortunate as he wouldn' listen and had a short tether - his boat sunk as it jerked against the swells causing the transom to dip under. Also nothing beats a 5 gallon bucket if there is alot of water in the boat to get some of the water out until it can get stable.
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 08/20/08 - 10:15 PM
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Well I made it back out to the boat this afternoon, seas were calmer so I was able to go down back and bail (had a 5 gal bucket on board but it got washed over the transom when the stern took on water). Turns out the bilge pump battery wasn't dead after all, the wire going into the in-line fuse holder corroded and disconnected... Timing. There was some seaweed etc in the sump, but the pick up screen was clean for the most part.
Both the batt boxes and oil tank box had significant water in them, so the stern must have taken some good water over it while the boat was flooded. Didn't appear to be any water in the oil, but I'm going to tip on a corner and siphon some out from the bottom anyway.
Both the anchor locker in the front and the large locker just behind it had some water, but not as much as I've had in the past from rain, and it was very cold (meaning it was rain water and not sea water) so I don't think it was taking waves over the bow. I think this was all stern induced and moving the batt's and oil tank fwd should hopefully help.
The pennant that attaches it to the mooring ball is standard length of at least 2.5 times the height to the bitt, so I'm not sure if that was an issue or not. I'm wondering if the canvas on the T-top acted like a kind of sail when the bow would go up on a wave, pushing the stern down into the water more than it should?
But all that being said, she still behaved like a Whaler when I pulled the rear drain plug in desperation. Didn't self bail nearly as much as Jeff's previous Outrage, but it was enough to get the transom above water and drain the deck. Can't beat that!
Edited by Derwd24 on 08/20/08 - 10:42 PM
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| howard Werner |
Posted on 08/21/08 - 4:15 AM
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so happy to hear that.
I have been thinking about how horrible that feeling must be just not knowing.
Glad you made it back out to the boat and that all seems to be relatively well.
Enjoy the rest of your summer the mornings are getting cooler.....
Howard
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 08/21/08 - 9:09 AM
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Many thanks Howard! The worst feeling was being on the boat that day in the large swells, having to stand at the bow because my weight was too much at the flooded stern, and watching the transom go under and the water roll in on every large swell. Once I pulled the plug and got some water out, I still got the wash over when I was back there, so I couldn't do any more until the seas subsided, but at least it was visibly higher in the water. What a day....
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| CES |
Posted on 08/21/08 - 10:35 AM
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Dave,
Crazy story man. I can only imagine how helpless you felt. Do you keep it docked on an open bay? I may have missed something.
Glad it all worked out for you......Go Whaler!!
Cliff
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| JMount |
Posted on 08/21/08 - 4:08 PM
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Glad to hear that you got it under control. That is not fun. It sure sounds like there wasn't quite enough line to ride between the swells and the stern of the boat. It can easily jerk in rough seas and dip the stern under. I have fished in the Aleutians of Alaska (Gulf of Alaska) for 25 years and have to take in account big seas and deal with this kind of situation often.
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 08/21/08 - 6:34 PM
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Cliff, Thanks. Yes it's moored off the beach and is open ocean, even though we're technically in Cape Cod Bay. When the winds come out of the north is when the seas are the worst, which is what happened in that squall.
J, Appreciate the input. Do you mean not enough pennant line from the boat to the mooring ball or not enough chain from the mushroom to the ball?
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| JMount |
Posted on 08/22/08 - 2:18 PM
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Not enough line from the boat to the mooring ball. Depends on how steep and close the swells are that come in. To stay on the safe side make it 1 1/2 - 2 times the boat length. You just don't want it to jerk from the buoy and dip the stern in. The longer the line - the better it can bob through the trough of the waves.
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 08/22/08 - 5:21 PM
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Thanks Jay, I'll see if they make them that long standard, if not I'll have to get it done custom. Appreciate the input, I'll try anything to avoid having that happen again!
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Jan Bindas |
Posted on 08/22/08 - 7:33 PM
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Derwd24,
Who is your harbormaster? I have boated in New England most of my life. I have had many boats, all on moorings until my status raised to get a slip. Usually the harbormaster sets your mooring and the distance between boats when moored. You can't always simply lengthen your pendant without hitting other boats when you swing. Yes it is correct the longer the line of your pendant will allow your boat to ride the waves easier. On my Whaler I carry both a bailer bucket, which is a cut up container from an Arizona iced tea or Windshield washer bottle works great. I also have a manual bigle pump available. In New England you can get some nasty waves and chop especially on weekends when the weekend boaters exit and leave narrow marinas and leave some nasty confused seas which come at you from all directions. You can bail faster than you can pump out and if you have additonal crew they can do it for you. Many times I have had to put my bow into the waves of a hugh cruiser plowing through the waves leaving a huge wake in a no wake or headway speed zone to keep the water out of my boat. (Try the entrance to the canal in Small Craft advisories with a running tide.)
As for lengthening the chain on your mooring-more is better, but remember the other vessels are in tight quarters as moorings are limited and there are too many boats for too little space. Usually the harbormaster will set the length. Make nice with your harbormaster to get a better mooring!
The combination of rain and heavy seas took the toll on your boat. My first boat did not have a bilge pump and on many rainy nights I had to row out to bail her. Automatic bilge pumps are great, you just have to keep them working. The nice thing about a whaler is that when fully swamped they will still keep the power head of your engine above water!
After a huge squall hit the Dorchester Yach Club one year, another captain's boat sank completely at the dock. I believe she was a pro-line or such 18 footer with a 90 Suzuki on it. We all grabbed the mooring lines (as she was on a slip) and lifted her 'till she could be bailed. Believe it or not the captain did not even remove the plugs to remove water from the cylinders (as I have seem many connecting rods bent when trying to compress the water), turned the key and the motor ran great! Sometimes luck can be the answer between success and failure.
Remember you have a 9' tide, and when the tide is out you have a longer scope on your mooring chain, when the tide is in you have no scope so the pendant is all you have to ride the waves, and on a New or Full moon with a Spring tide and a blowing North wind your mooring ball could go under and greatly hamper your boats ability to ride out the waves as the tide could be 2 or 3 feet higher.
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 07/30/10 - 10:17 PM
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Well it happened again today much to my surprise. When I looked out this afternoon, stern was sitting much lower in the water indicating trouble. Seas were calm, and we were out on the boat yesterday, all was fine. So when I got out there today, sure enough, the back was flooded again. Even the battery boxes were full, so something significant happened. Bilge battery was dead, so it must have been running long enough to wear down completely.
No rain in the last few days, but there may have been some waves last night as the wind did pick up. Didn't seem bad though as I can usually hear significant surf from the house.
I replaced the mooring line with a 20' length at the start of this season, thinking that would help, but it seems not.
Anyone have any other ideas on what may be causing this as it seems like it's going to be an issue every time that there are swells now?
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 07/31/10 - 8:06 AM
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Dave -
To me it appears that that the low stern and the engine and battery weight is allowing sufficient water over the transom to drain the battery.
Is the battery recent and takes a full charge?
If you rule out the battery, I suggest you consider moving the batteries forward.
Edited by Phil T on 07/31/10 - 8:09 AM
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 07/31/10 - 11:46 AM
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Seas kicked up again mid-morning today and sure enough she swamped again. Just got in from bailing out once more and you're right Phil, that's what's happening.
I was very close to moving the batteries up last season when it dawned on me that I'd be adding the weight of around 35' of 1 or 2 gauge battery cable to the hull and I wasn't sure that was the wisest thing given she's heavy now. But seeing that all 3 batt boxes (one for oil tank) back there were full of water each time this happens, it may be worth doing just to avoid that happening.
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 07/31/10 - 1:53 PM
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Dave - I have a very heavy motor on my transom so I moved my single battery to the console. I was shocked how much a difference it made.
Other than building a higher spashwell wall, I think the batteries being moved is your best bet.
You can test the weight shift before you do it. Mark the transom waterline with a grease pencil then park at a float, disconnect the batteries and put them on either side of the console and then look at the transom while standing on the float. 20 minutes to ensure it will really help.
Edited by Phil T on 07/31/10 - 2:02 PM
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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