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WIRING A MONTAUK
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| AJR |
Posted on 05/05/08 - 4:43 PM
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I recently wrote and asked how to wire the ignition switch on a 1973 Montauk with a 1986 evenrude 90 HP engine../.... I got a great reference and think I've got that resoved... Now I'm at the next step in wiring the boat. I want to install a positive and a negative buss bar located in the center console. Can I mearly run a postive and negative wire from the battery terminal to the two buss bars ????
Obviously I need to run the right size wires (I'll use the the wire size/ amps required charts in the West Marine catolog)... I don't have a shematic of the engine wiring, but is there a wire that connects between the alternator and the battery that provides recharging to the battery?--- Does anyone have a complete schmatic that shows the entire wiring -- I plan on running a fuse/switch panel off the buss bars I install in the center console. I'll run seperate (stand alone) wires from the battery to the radio.
Any help would be appreciated.
THANX
AJR
Edited by Joe Kriz on 05/05/08 - 4:47 PM |
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| kamie |
Posted on 05/05/08 - 5:00 PM
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AJR wrote:
I want to install a positive and a negative buss bar located in the center console. Can I mearly run a postive and negative wire from the battery terminal to the two buss bars ????
I plan on running a fuse/switch panel off the buss bars I install in the center console. I'll run seperate (stand alone) wires from the battery to the radio.
AJR
Why, Why, Why? You are over complicating the whole wiring? Do either a bus bar or a fuse panel (with negative) but both, not necessary. Also, why run a separate set of wires for the radio, back to the battery. Do a run of 10 gauge wire from the battery to the console. Put an inline 30Amp fuse on the positive wire at the battery end. Then wire the console end to a fuse panel. From the fuse panel wire all the electronics such as VHF, stereo, lights and GPS with 16 gauge wire. How many things do you need to wire, if more than 6, do two runs of 10 gauge and 2 fuse panels or use ATC fuses that BlueSea makes in a 12 fuse panel.
On my 18, I have two runs of 10 gauge to two 30amp breakers I use as master on/off switches and from there to two fuse panels. I run everything off those fuse panels, including two 16 gauge wire runs back to the bilge pumps.
Your engine is hooked to the battery (assuming a single battery) and that should charge the battery with the engine running.
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| AJR |
Posted on 05/05/08 - 5:18 PM
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I really appreciate the feedback.... I'm afraid we disagree on wiring.. Radios and any sensative electronics should not be wired with other accessories... Problems include voltage drop, feedback, and several other problems that you could be run into. An example with a radio is if in an emergency you loose B+ you are w/o a radio to call for help. Most mfg's recommend seperase radio wireing .... Running a seperate + & - buss bar simplifies wiring and keeps from having a "rats nest" behind the console..
Again, THANX for your suggestions
AJR
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| Phil T |
Posted on 05/05/08 - 5:45 PM
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A -
I agree with Kamie. Boston Whaler does not wire the way you are describing either. While the boat may have been wired a different way (battery in the stern) when built in 1973, that was before VHF, GPS etc. While it is your boat, why make it more complicated/expensive?
Why not move the battery to the console. For the main set from the motor to the console run a set of 2 gauge (not 2/0) to the battery. From the battery have 1 set (pos/neg) to a single blade type buss bar and then run the radio directly to the battery w/inline fuse. Less wiring and all in a protected place.
My '87 Montauk was this way and my Outrage 17 will be, once I move the battery. This is how my Outrage wiring looked before adding the wire loom
http://picasaweb.google.com/CascoBayO...6628886626
Just trying to help.
Edited by Phil T on 05/05/08 - 5:48 PM
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| ioptfm |
Posted on 05/05/08 - 6:36 PM
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Being previously in the electronics business, AJR you are correct in that Radios and other sensitive electronics should not be wired with other accessories.....there is absolutely nothing improper though with wiring them to a bus bar and that in fact is the proper way to do connect them. As long as you run a heavy enough gauge wire as your main power supply and ground from the battery, you will not see a drop in voltage. You will probably have more problems such as shorts, humming, motor noise and feedback by running multiple wires from the battery to each unit. As Kamie says, run more than one Bus Bar in order to have individual connections for each apparatus, but there is not need to complicant thngs. You will in fact more than likely cause greater peoblems by having multiple connections on the battery. Keep it simple 
PS
Look at the last photo on my personal page. That is just on a 15' Sport, but one main line comes from the battery and then to the Bus Bar and from there to each piece of electronics
In my opinion the negative or ground connection is just as important as the postive so I run a bus for the positive connections as well as one for the negative or ground connections.
Edited by ioptfm on 05/05/08 - 6:43 PM
Tom
1979 Sport 15' |
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 05/05/08 - 6:37 PM
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I think we are getting confused about terminology a bit. A fuse block can have a negative buss bar built into it That is what you want to use.
Simply run you leads form the battery to this fuse block. Power your accessories off of it.
Yes, *some* electronics will do better with their own leads from the battery to reduce RF interference, but not all.
Montauks made after about 1983 included a fuse or circuit breaker in the stern of the boat to protect the run from the battery to the fuse block in the console. Earlier Whalers did not.
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| kamie |
Posted on 05/06/08 - 12:50 PM
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AJR,
Every electronics manual tells you to run a pair of wires directly from the battery to their component. It keeps the wiring simple and if their product doesn't work, it's easily traced. Problem with that arrangement is multiple connections to the battery, inline fuses everywhere and a general mess of wires running from the console to the stern. Using a buss bar and a fuse block is overkill and overly complicates the wiring when you can use a fuse block with negative bus and be done. The only advantage I could see to using a bus bar is run a single wire run from the battery to the console and then multiple fuse blocks off the bus bar.
Not sure I understand the abbreviation "B+" Are you referring to loosing the battery power? If so, not sure how that figures into running the radio directly off the battery, no power, no radio unless you carry a hand held?
I used bus bars in two instances on my 18 Outrage. The first was for key-on power so I could distribute that to 2 separate devices, NMEA2000 network and Fuel Flow Meter. The second instance was to create a NMEA183 network between the fuel flow meter, the Fishfinder and the GPS. In the first instance all devidces are protected by in-line fuses so no fuse block required. In the second case, it was just easier and cleaner to use the bus bar, than to try to create some splitter.
Good luck on your wiring project.
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| Yiddil |
Posted on 05/06/08 - 2:01 PM
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Interesting thread.......Kamie are we talking about the same thing when wiring a 13? Actually, it should be simpler I would imagine...cause you probably don't have as much to wire in...GPS, some guages, maybe a radio...explain bus bar, fuse block, (with neg bus bar)? Basic wiring 101 needed )
Henry AKA THE YIDDIL |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 05/06/08 - 4:09 PM
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This is a basic fuse block with positive and negative bus bars.
This is very similar to what was used in Classic Whalers.
The positive wire from the battery is connect to one bus bar using the tall terminal stud post.
The negative wire from the battery is connect to the other tall terminal stud post.
You can then connect anything you want to the positive and negative terminals for power.
Obviously one wire to the positive side and the other to the negative side.
If you want to have something connected using a fuse, use the inside fuse terminals.
Also follow directions that come with the fuse/bus bar combo unit.
Here is a place that sells 4, 6, or 8 gang units.
http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com...duct=87059
Joe Kriz attached the following image:
[11.68Kb]
Edited by Joe Kriz on 05/06/08 - 4:15 PM |
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| Yiddil |
Posted on 05/07/08 - 6:23 PM
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Thanks Joe I think I'm getting it. I dont do much wiring at all But now that i got an extra battery, Ill probably go ahead and wire up the "CygNet", my 13 as soon as I choose a GPS/Sonar for her and I'll probably use my portable radio (Icom)
So it's basicly that and the bow and stern lights...the original light wires are intact, will have to see if they work..they have these funny two pronged wires that must have pluged into someothing at one time...
Im never going out at nite in her, but I thought it would be fun to try and finish the lights..may even add a trolling electric 30 thrust motor I have and play with that a while too hehe
Henry AKA THE YIDDIL |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 05/07/08 - 6:31 PM
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Henry,
You might also look at this article on wiring a light switch.
Make sure you also look at the "NOTE" at the bottom.
http://www.whalercentral.com/readarti...icle_id=51
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| Phil T |
Posted on 05/07/08 - 6:35 PM
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Henry -
After rewiring my Montauk and Outrage 17, I prefer this type.
[img]http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/74650104.jpg[/img]
Edited by Phil T on 05/07/08 - 6:36 PM
1992 Outrage 17 I
2019 E-TEC 90, Viper 17 2+
2018 Load Rite Elite 18280096VT |
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| Yiddil |
Posted on 05/07/08 - 6:39 PM
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Joe, Thnaks, that was the clearest explanation , direct, to the point, informative and extremely helpful
CBO, not sure I need all that for a 1964 13 but its worth looking at Thanks...
Ill look at the other discussion thread as well...Henry
Henry AKA THE YIDDIL |
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| kamie |
Posted on 05/08/08 - 1:15 PM
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Henry,
if you want to rewire your 13, call me once you have decided all the toys you want to wire up. While the basic fuse block that Joe is showing is really all you need, the Blue Sea ones have a cover which keeps them from getting splashed. Not water proof by any means just a little extra protection.
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| Terp |
Posted on 08/17/09 - 12:40 PM
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Phil T wrote:
Henry -
After rewiring my Montauk and Outrage 17, I prefer this type.
[img]http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/74650104.jpg[/img]
Phil, I'm an electrical novice. I've noticed these units are sold w/ or w/o Neg Bus. What is the difference? What would dictate which unit to intstall? Thanks.
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| CapnJs |
Posted on 08/17/09 - 3:39 PM
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I like the Blue Seas box. I used a bus bar to hook up all the instruments that needed to be lighted to a switch. A diagram is on my personal page.
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| Phil T |
Posted on 08/17/09 - 4:10 PM
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Terp -
I believe the non-bus bar Blue Seas unit only takes the postive wire from the battery and then feeds the positive (after the fuse) to the switch or device.
Edited by Phil T on 08/17/09 - 4:11 PM |
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