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Water Intrusion at Through Drains
gchuba	#1  Posted on 03/29/15 - 6:06 PM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	I have a 1979 22 ft Revenge. I just had a friend who is a boat surveyor come by with a moisture meter. I found a strata of water which was aft of several drain tubes. I have one of the first smirked hulls. The keel up to the first "smirk" measured some moisture (10% to 20%) ....just up from the first "smirk" to the second "smirk", I had several areas which registered wet (25% plus)......from that second "smirk" up to the bottom paint line I had the "moist" designation again. Measuring the areas we marked out with a crayon the wet sections of the boat is about 20% of the total area never exceeding 30% of moisture in the red zone of his measuring device. Needle never got buried or off the charts. I got the moisture reading because I decided to replace all the drain tubes. Even though my drain tubes looked intact I had to remove one for some gel coat repair. On the boat the tube visually looked OK but once removed I saw the exterior (foam side) was trashed/failed. I felt the moisture in the surrounding foam in several areas. One actually dripped some water for a bit. The worst culprit was the rigging tunnel drain where the water went straight don by the transom. The transom itself was dry. All the water entry points were directly correlated to areas that were aft of the drain tubes. This is torturing me. I have been working on this boat for a year (missed all of last fishing season) and have been getting it dialed in with a 2009 HO 200hp Etec. My choices are to keep it dry for another season, seal the the exposed drain areas with a plastic bag of calcium chloride. Let it bake in the sun and cover from rain or....replace the tubes , go out and fish. I would love to dock it in my slip. My ultimate goal is to leave the boat slipped for the better half of a year. Any and all input greatly appreciated. The boat is "opened up" right now and tackling it while open would be annoying but a bitter pill I would swallow. Per the bottom paint line.....the boat sits where it should in the water but who knows if the paint line is correct. Thanks. Garris Edited by gchuba on 03/29/15 - 6:26 PM
wing15601	#2  Posted on 03/30/15 - 5:15 AM
Member Posts: 699 Comments: 0 Joined: 07/14/12	i wonder what the moisture content of any one year old Whaler would be. And what does 10% or 20% moisture mean? It doesn't sound like something that is saturated. I'm thinking if you could drill a hole in a Whaler and pour in an 8 oz. cup of water then at that location it would be 100% moisture but after many years that water will have migrated over a much larger area giving only a 10-20% reading but really not much water at all. I would change the brass tubes and go fishing. I winter in Ft. Myers and summer in St. Joseph, Michigan. It’s now about 12 years since I’ve joined this group. I gave my 1972 whaler to my daughter and sold the 17’. Bought an O’Day 28 sailboat and sailed on Lake Michigan. Yesterday I bought a 2005 130 Sport.
wezie	#3  Posted on 03/30/15 - 5:33 AM
Member Posts: 109 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/12/07	using a meter, I came to the conclusion they are more of means of telling me there is more moisture here than there. In this case, the readings seem low overall. I would replace the through hull drains. When you fet them out, a shop vac directed at the openings will tell you whether there is water or moisture. Seal the new drains well and go fishing. Yes, newer whalers will register more moisture around the transom and through hulls, than along hull sides.
Phil T	#4  Posted on 03/30/15 - 8:48 AM
Administrator Personal Page Personal Album Project Albums Posts: 6986 Comments: 6 Joined: 03/26/05	With over 10 years of membership I have read 1,000's of posts. Of the top 25, water in the foam/moisture readings is on that list. Unless the boat is dripping wet or sitting scarily low in the water, seal up the holes and use it.
alan heckmamleper	#5  Posted on 03/30/15 - 9:17 AM
Member Posts: 79 Comments: 0 Joined: 04/14/13	Amen Phil !
gchuba	#6  Posted on 03/30/15 - 9:18 AM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	That was my inclination fellows but needed to post to help my sleep. I double checked this a.m. and knuckle tapped to that wonderful hollow sound. For any one purchasing an original older hull.....do the drains. I slipped mine for several months and regret any additional water I let in. I did do a weighing of the boat a couple of years ago and a hair heavy but not a perfect measurement with the rigging and trailer estimates. I was actually quite happy with the transom results. If I ever do this over again......drains, fuel hoses, fuel tank, electrical, my four immediate priorities. Thanks all. Garris
leoni	#7  Posted on 03/30/15 - 9:05 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 11 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/23/15	I was wondering what "do the drains means"? and can I do it myself?
gchuba	#8  Posted on 03/31/15 - 7:07 AM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	"Do the drains" is the removal and replacement of the brass drain tubes throughout the boat. I am not familiar with your hull so crawl over your boat and look for any pipes/tubes that that would allow for gravity discharge of water from your hull. Within the hull you may also have a tube that connects one cavity to the next. They have a flared end that holds a rubber "O" ring in place. Take out the tube (I delicately grind the flare off of one end and drive it out with a piece of sacrificial replacement tube) and replace with use of a specialty flaring tool ($30 +-). Many different methods for removal and replacing on the site, study up for your comfort zone. The tube is available from McMaster/Carr (also on the site) and double buy the length you need as you stumble through mistakes and failures creating the flare. A fun project that is doable with practice. Garris
VA Whaler	#9  Posted on 03/31/15 - 12:37 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 335 Comments: 0 Joined: 04/25/13	Hey Garris, Sorry to hear about my boat's twin. I'd bet if I used a moisture meter on my boat, I'd get the same reading if not worse. when I pulled the cabin drain and the starboard locker drain, some water dripped out. I let the foam dry a couple days and I was good to go. You tackled the dreaded fish locker to splashwell drain so the thru hull drains should be no problem for you. I'd highly recommend the air gun procedure if you have a friend and a good sized block of wood that you can employ. If you start at the anchor locker drain, its all downhill from there. That SOB about killed me but I wasted my time trying to get the threaded bolt flaring tool to work there. Let me know if you have any questions and I totally echo Phil's sentiments. Our boats are no longer spring chickens. Let's get as much enjoyment out of them as possible and unless absolutely necessary (drain tubes qualify) get the old gal out of the yard and into the water.
gchuba	#10  Posted on 04/01/15 - 5:52 AM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	John, I do not believe the two of us are "Spring Chickens" either. All in all I am OK with the results. I did the weighing of the boat (hair heavy) and the transom itself was solid (my biggest fear with the slight bow it has). I needed some direction as to how far I should take the water intrusion with my results. My boat has been dry for a year with the new rigging and jack plate reinforcement. I figured "what the heck....what's another year if the bang for the buck was worth it". From all the previous water issues I read on this site I felt mine were within tolerance but you never know. I am more frustrated for myself for having the boat slipped in salt water for six months which added to the issue. MY VISUAL OF THE DRAINS HAD THEM INTACT BUT THEY WERE NOT. Like Weatherly stated in one of his posts "....the O ring is one cheapest way to seal the tube....". My replacements are getting loaded with "Boat Life" in addition to the rubber gasket. I know you are tackling all the drains but I hope any member with one of these older hulls takes notice and do a drain replacement. I may very well do the drains over again in the areas of the worst results when in dry dock.. Let air get to that portion of the hull. Also very interesting to me is the water moved laterally through osmosis. not straight down. It was in the mid portion of the hull. I now ask!!!!!! What is the life expectancy of the new brass tubing installed? It looks like I may be doing the replacement again in 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? Or maybe sooner if I somehow decide to tent with calcium chloride and cook the hull for one winter because of my anal tendencies. Garris
VA Whaler	#11  Posted on 04/01/15 - 1:01 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 335 Comments: 0 Joined: 04/25/13	Garris I would say it would be hard to determine the life span of a brass drain. I have one in my 13 footer that was installed 20+ years ago and the metal looks as good as the day it was installed. The O rings have seen better days. But that boat mainly lives in a boathouse and when it does see water, usually its fresh. Another factor would be the various cleaners that we use on our boats. That stuff probably eats at the metal more than anything. So it will probably be one of those things you just inspect every year and if your gut tells you to replace it, replace it. Out of curiosity and slightly off topic--don't want to hijack the thread but does anyone know if the modern Whalers have the exposed foam just behind the thru-hulls? Did they protect the foam behind a thin layer of fiberglass or was that design trashed years ago?
cg_wilson2003	#12  Posted on 04/01/15 - 1:24 PM
Member Posts: 33 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/16/14	While over kill I am going to coat the inside of the drain holes with thickened resin so even if a washer failed it would not matter. I am going to replace the way everyone recommeds with 3M 4200 and all. You can get small amounts of expoxy resin for pretty cheap. The one thing I have found in restoring my whaler is the only issues were where the factory did not seal up a cut into wood such as the rigging acess into the deck. If it had not been for that the deck would not have rotted.
gchuba	#13  Posted on 04/01/15 - 6:54 PM
Member Posts: 1675 Comments: 0 Joined: 03/31/13	cg, thanks for the input. I am going with the "Boat Life". It is a sealant where the 5200 and 4200 (to a lesser degree) are adhesives. My concern with that the adhesive qualities of product. I had a strong suspicion, which was then proved to be true, that I am a hack with the gel coats, fiberglass repair, and other associated products. I really could not justify to myself an installation that had the potential of serious damage to the gel coat if I work on it down the road. Garris
Fisher C	#14  Posted on 05/26/15 - 9:37 AM
Member Posts: 1 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/20/14	Great information on the installation of drain tubes. Giving me the confidence to tackle the job on my, new to me 1988 Outrage 18. I'm gathering up the materials to replace the 4 drain tubes and have a question about the O-rings. I see in the McMaster-Carr catalog that the O-rings recommended in the forum are the EPDM. Any thoughts around using Buna-N or silicone O-rings instead (other than the red color of the silicone seals)? I'm in Ventura, CA, so salt water use. Thanks.
blindhog	#15  Posted on 05/26/15 - 10:44 AM
Member Posts: 1 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/26/15	You can also sleeve the drain hull with a PVC pipe. Make the drain hull slightly larger, epoxy hot coat the hole, rough up the PVC and then use thickened epoxy to bed it into the hole. You can use thin wall so you don't lose any rate of flow and you won't have to worry about a leaking brass tube again.
JRP	#16  Posted on 05/26/15 - 11:20 AM
Member Posts: 755 Comments: 2 Joined: 08/29/14	blindhog wrote: You can also sleeve the drain hull with a PVC pipe. Make the drain hull slightly larger, epoxy hot coat the hole, rough up the PVC and then use thickened epoxy to bed it into the hole. You can use thin wall so you don't lose any rate of flow and you won't have to worry about a leaking brass tube again. This is essentially how it's done (OEM) on our 19 Outrage II (1992), using moulded pvc through-drains. I like the looks of the bronze, but I prefer the no-maintenance pvc. These appear to be bedded with something like Life-caulk, but the method blindhog suggested above is probably superior. 19 Outrage II (1992)