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Glassing drain tubes
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| RogueII |
Posted on 08/13/14 - 7:00 AM
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Hi,
I've read a lot of the pros / cons of the brass drain tubes vs PVC.
My 1987 17 Montauk's splashwell tubes are looking tired.
Has anyone removed the tubes, and coated the exposed transom with a thin layer of fibgerglass cloth and epoxy and then covered with gelcoat?
Seems like a fairly easy way to permanently address this issue.
I realize this wont work for the primary transom drain that goes to the sump, but don't see why it wouldn't work for the splashwell drains.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 08/13/14 - 7:25 AM
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Water intrusion is a b*tch. The design is made with tubes. I say either fill them in completely and set up bilge pumps or repair per factory specs. I do not see any way you can fill in a 1" hole 7" deep with fiberglass/gel coat and leave the hole still intact with 100% water proofing.
Garris
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| RogueII |
Posted on 08/13/14 - 8:12 AM
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Hmm...1 piece of cloth coated in resin will be pretty thin. You're saying that the 3" depth of the hole is the challenge?
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| gchuba |
Posted on 08/13/14 - 8:29 AM
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Are you trying to fill the hole or find an alternative method for waterproofing and leaving a drain area intact?
Garris
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| ernest brooks |
Posted on 08/13/14 - 9:11 AM
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If you don't mind taking the time. How about taking a length of 7/8ths pvc pipe, cut an 1/8 inch slot its length, put tape over the slot, either wax or pva the pipe, then fiberglass the pipe with several layers. Sort of roll the glass around the pipe to your desired thickness. When set up, twist the pvc pipe out of the fiberglass tube as it will give being slotted. Boom your own fiberglass replacement tubes. Glass those into place. Just a thought.
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| RogueII |
Posted on 08/13/14 - 9:49 AM
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Garris -- alternative method for permanently waterproofing the drain and 100% preventing water intrusion.
Ernest -- I like your idea, but I would prefer to have the glass cure to the hull itself rather than "glue" it in afterwards with epoxy
I've seen instances with scuppers where people wet out glass around the hole and then inflate a ballon to keep pressure on the diameter of the drain while the resin sets.
Frankly I'm wondering if glass is required here -- simply coating the drain in epoxy would likely suffice.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 08/13/14 - 10:09 AM
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I recommend "factory original". I am not a "fiberglass man" or "epoxy pro". I believe if there was a 100% alternative method instead of the brass drain tubes it would have been welcomed on the web site with open arms. There are many posts as well as an installation article for drain tube installation. A proven method. My hull is a 1979 22' Revenge and the only tube I removed to date is one in the transom 12" below the water line. Still solid and functioning. I removed it to eliminate it.
I am installing a brass tube inside the hull. The only solid backing inside the hull is the gel coat (approximately 3/16 thick). Then foam. Then the other side of the gel coat. I would not trust a thin veneer of fiberglass with no backing. The boat flexes.
Garris
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| cys |
Posted on 08/13/14 - 11:40 AM
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I just redid the drain tubes on my 1988 Montauk 17. Before installing new brass tubes in the splashwell, I coated the interior of the holes with some West System epoxy thickened with a bit of silica.
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| RogueII |
Posted on 08/13/14 - 1:45 PM
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cys wrote:
I just redid the drain tubes on my 1988 Montauk 17. Before installing new brass tubes in the splashwell, I coated the interior of the holes with some West System epoxy thickened with a bit of silica.
Hmm...perhaps I will go this route.
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| ernest brooks |
Posted on 08/14/14 - 2:58 PM
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I think CYS has the answer. Just slop the heck out of those holes and replace with new brass tubes. I don't know why, but I was thinking you wanted to do the bottom drain in fiberglass or some alternative. Even so, I don't see why you couldn't lay up 'several' layers of glass in those 3 inch length holes instead of one. Sounds pretty workable.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 08/14/14 - 6:11 PM
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Cys, did you still flare the ends or did you trust the epoxy? I am not familiar enough with epoxy resin to know if it has give to compensate for movement in the boat. The flaring with the washers always leaves the entrance holes for the tube cinched.
Garris
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| cys |
Posted on 08/14/14 - 8:50 PM
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I still flared the ends of the brass tubes, using both an oring and 4200 to seal them.
Chris
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| RogueII |
Posted on 08/15/14 - 9:02 AM
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Epoxy is watertight and would flex with the boat in this application, yes. I will assess the situation once I've pulled the old drain tubes.
And yes, I was referring to the 3" splashwell drains, not the primary transom drain which I agree would be difficult to try and glass.
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| hullinthewater |
Posted on 08/16/14 - 11:58 PM
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Rogue- check my post of a year ago.
http://whalercentral.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=19419&pid=123895#post_123895
All you need is some 1"ID. f/glass tube [http://www.mgs4u.com/fiberglass-tube-rod.htm], WestSystem epoxy resin, a 1-1/2" hole saw and f/glass cloth,. masking tape.
I've owned 4-5 fiberglass boats over the last 28 years, and developing lamination, fill, surface patching skill should be a given for anyone w/glass boats. I'm surprised so many are somewhat averse to it. On the other hand, I've been surfing for almost 5 years now and know plenty of guys who take their surfboards to shopps to repair dings and gouges, etc, so go figure.
Seems as natural to owning a glass boat [or board] as being able to change a car tire, or oil and filter.
Whatever, I think the brass tube, rubber o rings, flaring tool and non-square angles of joined surfaces is repetative problem looking for an answer- the answer is glass it and forget about it. But there is no shortage of BW purists who will stand by it, and unless you plan on keeping it immersed in water, and don't mind re-doing it every 4-5 years, groove on.
I did all of mine, except for the locker drain, which doesn't sit immersed-normally, but I plan on changing it out next time I do another bottom paint [keep mine slipped in Pacific].
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| hullinthewater |
Posted on 08/17/14 - 12:34 AM
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gchuba- Mine is an 1987 SS converted to a custom CC, but otherwise a regular Montauk hull and liner.
After I removed my sump drain, I hole sawed from each side and saw that the liner was solid laminate plus gel coat, just like the hull side, but not as thick.
[If anyone would like, I'll post pics on my personal page]
Anyway, I wrapped the cloth around the tube ends to fill the over size hole [+/- 1/8" over], then overlapped cloth on mating surfaces max 1/2-3/4" beyond tube protrusion , making it a very rigid connection. My sense of the way most hulls are constructed, is that the 'transom-to-keel-to-waterline-to-sump/deck' is the most rigid area of the entire boat, so flexibility wasn't paramount to me.
Back when these boats were thought out, the brass tube idea was likely the least expensive, but every bit as rigid as a glassed in tube, except for those little o-rings.
Anyway, it took me about 4-5 hours of cutting, measuring, laminating, fairing, sanding, re-fairing, re-sanding, finish coating- but I'm done for the life of the boat.
My guess is that fitting a brass tube may have taken 1-2 hours.
Fast forward to lately and BW switched up to PVC, but not sure.
I wouldn't do PVC, even with epoxy resin, b/c I don't think the chem is compatible, eventho I haven't seen much that WestSystem doesn't bond tenaciously to.
Just thought I'd share what works for me.
(fixed abbreviated year)
Edited by Joe Kriz on 09/30/14 - 11:29 AM |
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| hullinthewater |
Posted on 08/17/14 - 12:40 AM
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Edit: No that it matters, but I meant to type
"I've been surfing for almost 45 years now..."
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| RogueII |
Posted on 10/16/14 - 10:42 AM
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I may just go with new drain tubes. What length is required for the 2 transom drains on a 17 Montauk? 1" x 3" or 1" x 2 7/8"?
Thanks
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| wing15601 |
Posted on 10/16/14 - 3:29 PM
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Be aware that epoxy will degrade when exposed to sunlight and those splash well drains will get enough sun to cause problems. I would imagine in a year or two. The method of prevention is to coat the epoxy to block the sun with either paint, gelcoat or varnish with a uv inhibitor. Easier just to use the brass.
I winter in Ft. Myers and summer in St. Joseph, Michigan. It’s now about 12 years since I’ve joined this group. I gave my 1972 whaler to my daughter and sold the 17’. Bought an O’Day 28 sailboat and sailed on Lake Michigan. Yesterday I bought a 2005 130 Sport. |
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| jvz |
Posted on 10/17/14 - 6:13 AM
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I have always done what CYS has done. Once I pull the old tubes, I let the the drain hole dry out, clean w/pipe brush, then brush/coat the interior of the drain hole with West System - two thin coats.
If you go too thick you will not be able to get the new tube in.
It is impossible for sunlight to hit the interior of the drain holes,especially with the new drain tubes installed.
Install the tubes with the O-rings & 4200, flare the ends & done.
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| Whalerbob |
Posted on 10/17/14 - 7:10 AM
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RogueII wrote:
Has anyone removed the tubes, and coated the exposed transom with a thin layer of fibgerglass cloth and epoxy and then covered with gelcoat?
I think he's talking about removing the brass tube and then lining the inside of the hole and surrounding area with fiberglass, then applying gel coat to finish it. I'd like to hear if anyone has done this but I'd be concerned about leaving a pin hole inside the tube or have a hair line crack develop that if un-noticed could cause problems in the long run.
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