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Trailer Brakes--Electric vs. Surge in a salt water environment
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| VA Whaler |
Posted on 07/02/14 - 10:32 AM
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My water tests for my 1979 22' Revenge went very well last weekend so I'm going to move forward on a big purchase. I need to replace the old trailer. My question revolves around the brake system. Taking price out of the equation, what would you recommend for a trailer that will be used mainly in a salt water environment: Surge or Electric?
Thanks!
John
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| Phil T |
Posted on 07/02/14 - 11:13 AM
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Don't you mean electric versus hydraulic? Given trailer/load, I would think that surge would not be satisfactory.
I have read from owners that discs hold up better than drum.
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| VA Whaler |
Posted on 07/02/14 - 12:08 PM
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Phil T wrote:
Don't you mean electric versus hydraulic? Given trailer/load, I would think that surge would not be satisfactory.
I have read from owners that discs hold up better than drum.
Yes you are correct. My old trailer has the hydraulic and drum combination. The brakes have not worked since day one but we used a heavy duty truck to haul it. My goal is to be able to haul it with a standard size pick up so I'm thinking the electric brakes and disk would be the way to go. This should also aid with some of the steeper ramps correct? With hydraulic, you have no trailer braking when backing down to the water. I have seen more than a few boats almost pull their tow vehicle into the water with them. I'd assume the electric brakes would counter that but my concern was with the impact of the salt water/air on such a system.
Thanks again.
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| tedious |
Posted on 07/02/14 - 1:22 PM
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We have hydraulic surge brakes on a boat that weighs 4200 pounds and is launched and retrieved, in salt water, only once a year. They work OK, not much modulation, either on or off but they do help at a stoplight. Our first set came with the trailer, and lasted 8 years before requiring replacement of rotors and calipers. We did not go with stainless for the replacements, but are trying to take more care rinsing them.
To my knowledge, straight electric actuators will not last long in a boat trailer application - they don't like getting wet, much less with salt water. I believe the optimal boat trailer setup is electric over hydraulic, actually an electric pump driving a hydraulic brake system, and they are expensive.
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| butchdavis |
Posted on 07/02/14 - 4:08 PM
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For a small boat surge brakes will be fine. I recommend disc brakes with brakes on both axles. I assume you'll be getting a tandem axle.
It may be a bit of overkill but it's the brakes and some overkill is justified. for a salt water trailer I also believe torsion axles will last much longer with less grief than leaf springs. I also recommend you spec the trailer for all stainless steel hardware.
If you go with disc brakes get a qulity brand using stainless parts
Butch |
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| kamie |
Posted on 07/02/14 - 6:19 PM
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VA Whaler wrote:
My old trailer has the hydraulic and drum combination. The brakes have not worked since day one but we used a heavy duty truck to haul it.
Do you mean they haven't worked at all or just don't work well? If they didn't work at all, how did you pass the yearly trailer inspection?
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| tmann45 |
Posted on 07/02/14 - 7:45 PM
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I have heard that electric brakes (electric all the way back to the drum) are not saltwater friendly and they are only available on drum brakes.
Electric over hydraulic would be the best system for a boat trailer. With this system you could run disc or drum style brakes.
I have surge disc brakes on one axle of a dual axle trailer that weighs 5000 lb, they work great.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 07/02/14 - 8:22 PM
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I am a firm believer in electric brakes. They have wonderful actuators mounted in the tow vehicle that you can physically manipulate. The problems for the surge is you have the brakes locking in reverse going up a steep grade (unless you put in a locking pin). They are also a "rhythmic beat behind" the tow vehicle. When you go to stop you get bumped forward, then the breaks engages, you accelerate, you drag a braked trailer for a second. By true DMV codes they are technically illegal in CA (never enforced whatsoever) because you need breaking in all directions.
Getting a flush kit to wash out the salt water is an advantage. Also, unplug the harness before you launch the boat. Prevents the electric current dispersing into the salt water.
They supposedly have sealed axle braking for trailers. Only something I know exists but nothing else. The were associated with aluminium trailers.
Garris
edit: tmann, Carom, I have had vacuum actuated hydraulic trailer brakes, as well as, a hydraulic actuated (plumbed into my trucks hydraulic braking) hydraulic trailer brakes. Any more info on the electric over hydraulic? Interesting system. My boat mechanic swears by hydraulic braking. Thanks.
Edited by gchuba on 07/02/14 - 11:08 PM |
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| butchdavis |
Posted on 07/03/14 - 7:03 AM
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When disc brakes are installed it's routine to add a reverse lockout solenoid to the system. A five pin harness is then used. The lockout is wired to the reverse lights on the tow vehicle so that the surge brakes are automatically locked out when the vehicle is in reverse.
Electric over hydraulic brakes are seen, most often, on very large tandem and triple axle boat trailers supporting very large and heavy boats. The may be nice for some but I don't care for them. They are certainly overkill for a small 22 foot boat and they are far from inexpensive.
KISS is a very good principle to use around boats.
Butch |
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| gchuba |
Posted on 07/03/14 - 7:19 AM
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Butch, thanks. Usually I see the Rental Yards set ups of hydraulically braked rental trailers. Strictly surge actuated. I knew there had to be some sort of auto lock for reverse in higher end systems.
The rinse kit I spoke of is a harness that goes from each individual wheel that attaches to a hose fitting. Cleans the interior.
Garris
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| tedious |
Posted on 07/03/14 - 7:36 AM
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Sorry, don't know much more about electric over hydraulic other than they exist, and are pricey.
What is the usage model of the trailer in question? Do you routinely haul for long distances, or just to and from a local ramp, and how frequently? The surge brakes work reasonably well, and I am sure with stainless versions they'd last a lot longer than ours did.
I do understand that electric brakes work very well, especially in combination with some of the on-vehicle controllers which are very sophisticated. I was looking into electric brakes when I was considering a landscape trailer, but the ones I saw were not sealed in any way and I can't imagine them lasting very long when dipped into salt water.
I forgot to mention that our surge setup does have a 5-pin connector and the reverse-lockout solenoid. It also has a manual locking pin that you use when you unhook the trailer electrics before backing into the water.
Tim
Edited by tedious on 07/03/14 - 7:38 AM |
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| Marko888 |
Posted on 07/03/14 - 9:04 AM
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re the brake components themselves, my research has me set on Kodiak brand disc brakes, utilizing stainless calipers (which are supposed to last the life of a trailer) and coated iron rotors, a wear item (cheaper than stainless). They are a bit more expensive, but appear regarded as the best available.
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| tedious |
Posted on 07/03/14 - 10:00 AM
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Article on electric-over-hydraulic: http://www.boatus.com/magazine/traile...brakes.asp
And this article indicates that direct electric brakes are also possible: http://www.redtrailers.com/ShowArticl...e.asp?id=2 while this one discourages it: http://www.etrailer.com/question-4626...-4626.html
I guess it's "your mileage will vary..."
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| VA Whaler |
Posted on 07/03/14 - 10:55 AM
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Thanks for all the replies and advice. Sorry I forgot to mention that the boat will primarily be stored near the Yorktown area of Virginia and for the most part will be stored at a marina or close to a ramp.
I might occasionally drive it across the state and put it back in Smith Mt. Lake but I can forsee it living most of its life near the coast.
I'm thinking hydraulic actuated disk brakes. I'm also going to look into the torsion axles that butch mentioned.
Thanks again
John
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| Ric232 |
Posted on 07/05/14 - 10:38 PM
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I think you're on the right track there. Surge hydraulic brakes are very reliable if installed and serviced properly. They are such a simple design that they are virtually idiot-proof. All kinds of pesky problems can occur when electrical signals and/or electrical actuators are required. I had drums that worked flawlessly on my last boat (4,000 lbs +), but discs are definitely a better option for stopping power and corrosion resistance due to easier flushing and draining.
Ric
2008 130 Sport
Merc 40hp 4-stroke |
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| VA Whaler |
Posted on 07/08/14 - 7:35 AM
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Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to contact the Northernmost Continental dealer as I have read very good things about them. The only down side is the distance from VA.
I'm also going to talk with a local marina that carries Load-Rite trailers and I see that they can customize their trailers. Does anyone here use Load-Rite? The benefit for buying one locally is that I can get the marina to set the trailer for me and load my Revenge onsite.
Finally, would going with 4 disk brakes be overkill for a 22' Revenge? It probably would be until I have to stop quickly on I-64 in heavy traffic.
Thanks again
John
Edited by VA Whaler on 07/08/14 - 7:36 AM |
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| tedious |
Posted on 07/08/14 - 8:41 AM
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John, we have a Load-Rite torsion axle roller trailer for our Aquasport. It seems OK, nothing terribly special but holding up decently after 10 years on the Maine coast.
First thing to check out on brakes is the law in the state you'll be registering the trailer. Some jurisdictions require brakes on all axles, some not - so there may be no choice. Unless it's ridiculously more expensive, consider going with all axles for better performance in wet weather.
Tim
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| tmann45 |
Posted on 07/08/14 - 8:42 AM
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VA Whaler wrote:
Finally, would going with 4 disk brakes be overkill for a 22' Revenge? It probably would be until I have to stop quickly on I-64 in heavy traffic.
John
Check your state laws, some states require brakes on all axles (over a certain weight), some might not.
For a comparison of state laws seel this google search: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=...ailer+laws
The information on these sites might be correct or not, use your state's website to be sure.
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| VA Whaler |
Posted on 07/08/14 - 10:58 AM
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Tim and T, thanks for that extra information.. I think VA likely requires brakes on one axle for a boat that size. I checked similar tandem axle trailers at the marina and all that I have seen only have the brakes on one axle.
Kamie, sorry I did not get back to you earlier but VA does not require trailer inspections--yet. Don't tell the governor.
If something had happened on the journey home that day and they found the brakes were not working we likely would have been strung up. The driver who trailered it has driven semis most of his life and his truck likely weighed twice the boat weight. After giving the trailer and boat a good going over, he felt OK about trailering it but we did take the back roads. I wouldn't have done it but I probably wouldn't have a boat now either.
Edited by VA Whaler on 07/08/14 - 10:59 AM |
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| russellbailey |
Posted on 07/08/14 - 11:22 AM
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I think these two quotes address your question - my take is only one axle is required in VA, but I have brakes on both axles on my 1984 Outrage 25 and would not have them on just one - the incremental cost is moderate.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-1070
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-1067
Be aware that Virginia also requires an annual inspection of any trailer where brakes are required. I get mine done each year when I get the tow vehicle done. You get an inspection sticker just like for your car though it is not very rigorous, though it seems like many people do not get actually get them.
I have electric over hydraulic brakes using a Titan Brakerite actuator, with Kodiak stainless steel calipers and coated discs. It works very well.
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