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1974 Custom 16 -- New guy with lots of questions...
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| Stefan Bishay |
Posted on 02/27/11 - 9:35 PM
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Hello to all, this is my first post... as I am now the proud owner of a 1974 Custom 16. She is my first non-inflatable boat, and having read a lot in these forums I am a bit concerned with my purchase.
The boat has a several spots of damage to the hull (mostly on the keel) with the foam showing. There is evidence of poorly done repairs in several places, and a lot of stress cracks in the gelcoat. I assume these will all be easy fixes, I do have some experience with composite repair and have a vacuum pump to draw out any entrapped water. The deck has a lot of cracks as well... should I try to repair the non-skid pattern, or finish the entire floor with epoxy non-skid paint?
The console and seat are a kludge, I have no idea what was there from the factory, but I will pull all that out. I am concerned that the embedded wood under the deck may be damaged or rotten, based on all the holes that had been put in it. It would probably not be worth the effort to cut out and repair all of that. Any experiences here?
Planning on building a smaller console out of aluminum -- I'd like to find a used fiberglass one but have not had much luck.
Motor is a 1981 Mercury 80 with a jet drive conversion... this boat is not going to be used in any shallow rivers, so I may to trade it for a larger conventional engine. It does run well, and came with hydraulic steering. The safety data plate on the hull lists the max HP as 50, but I thought these came from the factory with 75+... seems odd.
That being said, I paid under $3000, with a trailer. Not sure if I'm going to take it in the shorts yet, but it seemed like a good deal at the time!
[img]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2254/whaler1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3438/whaler2.jpg[/img]
Edited by Joe Kriz on 02/28/11 - 3:46 PM |
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| flippa |
Posted on 02/28/11 - 6:25 AM
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Congratulations on the new boat!
It looks like a decent first whaler. What are your intentions with the boat? Are you looking to retore it back to OEM condition or just clean it up?
It will get ugly if you cut out the floor to replace the wood. I had a few stripped-out fasteners where the wood was located under my leaning post. I drilled out the holes dug out as much soft wood as I could & injected epoxy into the cavity. These have been holding fine for several years; haven't had any of them back out or loosen up yet. Search the site, there are many topics on this repair.
That is a funky looking engine! Not sure of the HP rating of that hull, but it will handle up to a 90 with no problem. If the engine runs well, it may be less hassle to get a lower unit & keep the existing engine.
I think you got a good deal for a running boat with a trailer & kicker motor. Be careful in restoring her; you may find after disassembling it that you will be start spending lots of money.
When a boat comes apart to get a restoration, sometimes they spend years out of the water. I would not be so concerned with water in the hull of this old boat; with an 80 it should have plenty of power to move it along just fine. Patch up the bottom damage, paint the interior & modify the console to your liking.
Personally I would just get it running well & start enjoying it.
Edited by flippa on 02/28/11 - 6:34 AM |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/28/11 - 6:59 AM
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Hi Stephan, welcome aboard. I have the same year Montauk and thought mine was a mess. It looks like most of your interior is gone and changed to after market parts.
You can take a look at my personal page to get some idea what the original parts should be, mine is still in tact as far as originality is concerned but I have it completely stripped right now as repairs are slowly progressing. Fortunately my hull is in very good shape and fairly dry inside.
Just some thoughts here. Your boat is rated for a 90 HP motor. If the motor is good I think I would change it back to a prop motor and leave it. Sell the Jet unit or trade it for what you need.
Assess the hull condition and if you do not have the ability and facilities to make the necessary repairs then you might want to rethink your final plans. There is a point in condition where the hull is too far gone and needs too much work. Bringing it back to original spec will be very costly.
You might become very friendly with Sue at Twin Cities and Mike at Nautical Lumber for the necessary parts and pieces in the future. Both are sponsors here and a wealth of info and resources.
Before going any further I would make the hull assessment as this is your platform to build on. Get your personal page up and running and possibly a project page so you can post the pictures. A picture here or there from photobucket is allowed but they do slow down the works for us all and the personal and project pages are the place to do it.
Have fun.
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| Fishmore |
Posted on 02/28/11 - 7:23 AM
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Stephan, I will third the concept that instead of getting a different motor just sell the jet unit and buy a conventional lower end for that motor if it runs well. As others have said don't try to restore to perfect condition patch up the holes and clean it up and run it. You could spend years and lots of money trying to restore the boat when you could be out enjoying it.
For consoles try the following link.
http://www.fishing-catalog.com/docks/...soles.html
For windshield:
http://www.updplastics.com/Boston%20W...7%20Ft.htm
For Seat:
http://www.specialtymarine.com/RPS-Se...ories-c25/
Use the search function within this website for information on repairing the holes either damage or screw holes. Lot's of good information here. Also look at the personal pages to see what others have done.
Good luck with your new (to you) Whaler.
Edited by Fishmore on 02/28/11 - 7:24 AM |
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| Stefan Bishay |
Posted on 02/28/11 - 3:32 PM
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Thanks for the advice guys. I will be on the lookout for a prop lower unit for the motor. Will 80hp be enough? I'd like to be able to do 40+ with one person and no gear.
This will not be a total, original restoration. I feel it's too far gone. I will flip the boat over in the next few weeks, patch and repair as required with epoxy resin, sand it down and run her. Next year or over the winter (when I get the garage cleaned out) I will probably sand down the hull and redo the gelcoat.
The floor concerns me quite a bit. There are a lot of cracks, especially around the rear sump area. Any thoughts on these? Here are links to the photos:
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/38...haler6.jpg
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/48...haler4.jpg
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 02/28/11 - 4:39 PM
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OUCH Stephan!
Plug any and all holes with screws after you strip the interior stuff. Mix a 5 gallon bucket of hot water and a cup of clorox and use a stiff brush followed by a pressure washer at a low setting.
Cracks in the gel coat are not necessarily leaks into the inner hull and foam. Any BW of this age will have cracks but they should not go through the fiberglass.
Check your drain tube! It is probably corroded and this is where water will most certainly get in to the foam. I have no idea what the black square thing is above the drain well.
If it is any consolation, a BW will float in just about any condition. You could weigh the hull and find out how much extra weight is between the hull and deck, the numbers are here and I think it is right around 750 pounds with no motor or fuel.
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| modenacart |
Posted on 02/28/11 - 5:06 PM
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Before I do anything I would check to see how it drafts. If it drafts really low, I would get a different boat. If it drafts high, then I would repair it.
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| Stefan Bishay |
Posted on 02/28/11 - 9:50 PM
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modenacart wrote:
Before I do anything I would check to see how it drafts. If it drafts really low, I would get a different boat. If it drafts high, then I would repair it.
That sounds like a good idea... how will I know where it should sit in the water? Should I do this with the engine installed or removed?
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| CES |
Posted on 03/01/11 - 3:59 AM
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If the motor runs well and the Jet conversion isn't giving you any problems, why change it?? The Jet certainly makes this a very unique boat and if it were me, I'd leave it on there.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| gacto |
Posted on 03/01/11 - 4:25 AM
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Stefan,
A few months back I was looking around at jet drive outboards, and came across a site that sold conversions to jet from standard prop. I believe they were in the mid-west, but i found their site on google. The aftermarket drive you jave looks identical to the one they were selling. If you want to change back over, you may want to search them out, and contact them about a swap. They may have lower units and be willing to make an exchange or even buy you used drive. I would search google ourboard jet drive conversion...just a thought. Good luck with the boat...
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| Binkie |
Posted on 03/01/11 - 5:45 AM
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If you really want to know if the hull has any/much water intrusion, remove the engine and controls, fuel tank, funky console and seat, and take the boat to a scale and get it weighed. Usually about $10. Then remove the boat and weigh the trailer. You can do this with a couple of bathroom scales, or get it weighed again for another $10. Then compare the weight to the actual new weight that is posted somewhere on this site. That weight may include the original console and seating, but maybe someone here can give you a good guess on that would be. Then you know what you have. When you flip the hull, to repair the keel, don`t just butter on some epoxy and call it good. It won`t work. grind the bad areas down to the glass, then use a couple of layers of mat and polyester resin, grind it down smooth, fill in any voids with good quality bondo, and then paint or gell coat. If your going to paint the entire boat next year, just prime the repaired area with a brush and roller. The 4 cyl 80 Merc is a great engine, I wish I had it. Try the engine with the pump, if you don`t like it sell it or trade it for a conventional gearcase. The pump may be worth more than a prop gearcase. BTW you don`t heed another lower unit, just the bottom section(gearcase.)
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| Anemone |
Posted on 03/01/11 - 7:10 AM
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Stefan, I am in the same "boat" literally with much to do to get it where I ultimately want it to be but I just want to get some use out of it this summer. I bought what is supposed to be a 75 over the weekend and I have to say your boat looks alot better than mine. Good luck on your project!
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| tom blinstrub |
Posted on 03/01/11 - 7:18 AM
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I remember reading in the buck book that a late 60's 16' bare hull weighs 550 pounds. Bare hull meaning no console etc. It should not weigh more than 600 pounds for sure.
I would want to fix any damage below the waterline before you used it as a start.
Cool looking jet drive. Should give the performance of a 60-65 hp engine. Good luck
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| Fishmore |
Posted on 03/01/11 - 7:23 AM
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Stephan,
Weighing the boat would be a better option then launching it as you plan to do your hull repairs and getting it wet will not help your cause. If you want to say the hell with it then first look at some pictures of boats in the Whaler Models section to get an idea of where the water line should be. Maybe print a couple of pictures to take with you. Then launch the boat with the motor on it and see if you have a similiar waterline. You will quickly know if the boat is sitting to low in the water. Most likely you will be okay. If you want to take a couple of pictures while the boat is in the water and post them so you can get other opinions.
For the bottom damage I would second what Binkie said which is do the repair right i.e. grind out the damaged area and seal the hole with a couple of layers of fiberglass cloth. For holes above the waterline you can get away with epoxy fillers for a little while but, you cannot do that with holes below the waterline. Unless the hole is really small. Make sure to feather the edges and that the first layer goes behind the fiberglass around it. Then build up with cloth and epoxy fillers and fair the repair from there. It looks like you already have bottom paint so I would just get some more bottom paint and paint over the repair.
The interior looks like it was painted before so going back to gelcoat would be a lot of work especially to get the paint out of the non-skid. While you have the interior out of the boat pressure wash it and get any loose paint off then while you have the interior out lightly sand to clean it and remove any more loose paint. Fill and repair any holes and then clean it twice more. Finally, following manufactures procedures reprime and repaint. Seeing as you want to keep the cost down use Interlux Epoxy Primekote primer and Brightside with a flattening agent for paint (if you want it shiny skip the flattening agent). This will be easy and economical for you. The primer helps to fill the gelcoat cracks although it is not perfect it will be serviceable. If I remember correctly you can figure on two quarts of primer and two quarts of paint and one quart of flattening agent (read the instructions). Probably will cost around $200.00 to do the whole interior with the roll and tip method. It is real easy to do and looks great for a few years if done right. Stick with the plain white colors and it is easy to fix any dings you may get.
Good luck...
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| modenacart |
Posted on 03/01/11 - 12:43 PM
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My drafted maybe 1.5-2 inches above the chime in the very aft end with th engine trimmed down. You can see where the blue bottom paint is in my first few pictures on my personal page.
I would seal off the damaged parts of the hull and see how it drafts with everything on board before I stripped it and weighed it. Stripping the boat and putting it all back together will be a lot of work.
I must have since deleted the picture. I might still have it somewhere.
Edited by modenacart on 03/01/11 - 12:46 PM
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| Stefan Bishay |
Posted on 03/01/11 - 4:10 PM
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Seeing as how I have free access to a truck scale I will weigh the bare hull, and report back with the results.
While hosing off the deck, lots of white paint started coming off. I think a good scrubbing and pressure washing will get it pretty clean, the paint job was not done well to begin with. I have a good quantity of two-component Polane polyurethane enamel paint, would this work OK topsides? I do have proper spray equipment.
I'll plan to do a proper repair on the hull, but do I need to touch-up the gelcoat in the repair areas if it will all be sanded down and re-done later?
I've been warned that the jet may not do well here in Puget Sound due as the prevalent floating kelp can block up the screen. The jet unit is made by Outboard Jets, they are still around. I will look for the prop gearcase, I could try the boat both ways and see what works best.
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 03/01/11 - 7:48 PM
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That jet will be worthless in the Sound. Jets are desirable for guys who boat on our local rivers and there may be a market for that foot.
I recommend selling the whole motor with jet for whatever you can get for it and buy something better. Even with a normal gearcase, that old Mercury 80 is a dog.
But do not do anything until you WEIGH THE HULL.
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| Stefan Bishay |
Posted on 03/17/11 - 5:30 PM
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Weight results are in... 740 lbs, bare hull. Whaler said the hull should weigh 560 lbs, so I have 180 lbs of water in there somewhere. That's only 20 gallons, not too bad, I think (Tom?).
I drilled two holes through the transom, to either side of the lower drain tube. The transom wood came out wet and soft (and did not appear to be rotten), but the foam was dry. I believe the water is immediately under the deck, where the wood is embedded, and under a 2x3' area of delamination just aft of the anchor locker. Time to start cutting up the floor...
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 03/18/11 - 4:59 AM
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Maybe Not! I believe the weight stated by BW on our hulls includes the standard gear normally found in the boats, CC and seat and the rails.
What is not included in the hull weight are the engine, fuel tank, battery and various other dealer added items.
I have my Console in the garage right now and almost ready to install back in the boat. I can say for sure it is very close to 100 pounds plus by itself with the windshield, grab rails, helm and controls. The RPS is probably another 30 pounds.
I had my boat on the trailer and baked it all last summer at close to a 45 degree angle to get as much water out. I drilled holes in the lowest part of the transom and I did find damp wood but the first day when I did this I don't think I got 2 cups of actual water out. It slow dripped for a day or so and then no more water was coming out at all.
If you flip it over to make the repairs you might see some weeping from the screw holes in the deck. It is my opinion that there is almost no way to dry the foam in between your deck and hull unless you cut away large sections and store the boat in a sealed garage with a couple of big dehumidifiers running for a long time.
Edited by Gamalot on 03/18/11 - 5:02 AM |
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| Stefan Bishay |
Posted on 03/18/11 - 11:57 AM
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Gamalot wrote:
Maybe Not! I believe the weight stated by BW on our hulls includes the standard gear normally found in the boats, CC and seat and the rails.
Well, the 560lb number came from Chuck Bennett when I inquired about my specific hull number, which was originally shipped as a bare hull. That 560lb number probably includes the rub rails (which I removed prior to weighing), but those can't weigh more than 20-30lbs.
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