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Filling holes in transom
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| surfncnow |
Posted on 12/11/10 - 6:22 AM
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modenacart wrote:
When I removed the engine, one of the holes was way out of round where they just drilled it bigger to make it fit the engine. I plan on filling the holes and redilling. I see that people recommend using wood plugs, why not just fill with long strand filler?
I wouldn't use wood plugs. I would chop up some mat and use it as a filler. Plugs will expand and cause the top coat to crack.
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| Finnegan |
Posted on 12/11/10 - 9:01 AM
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If some of you guys think teak is no good and not water resistant enough, why not use the real thing: Marine Plywood, just like Boston Whaler? It is easy to core a stack of 3 plugs out of 1/2 marine ply.
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| modenacart |
Posted on 12/11/10 - 10:40 AM
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I don't have any marine plywood laying around and don't want to buy a sheet for a few plugs.
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.
--Benjamin Franklin |
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| dthinds |
Posted on 12/11/10 - 9:08 PM
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One other note Polyester Jell coats don't like to stick to a epoxy base material. Might want to think about using a polyester base to seal the plugs in
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| John Fyke |
Posted on 12/12/10 - 5:39 AM
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dthinds wrote:
One other note Polyester Jell coats don't like to stick to a epoxy base material. Might want to think about using a polyester base to seal the plugs in
There is a common misconception, fueled by some gelcoat manufacturers and by some expensive failures in the field, that gelcoat will not bond to epoxy. Polyester resin bonds poorly in a secondary (mechanical) bonding situation which consequently makes epoxy the resin of choice for repairs. How can one be squared with the other?
The answer is surprisingly simple - gelcoat does bond to a properly cured and prepared epoxy surface. There are a couple issues to be aware of to have success making this repair. There are three situations that cause gelcoat to not cure over epoxy... all related to the hardener chemistry. Epoxy hardeners are basically a blend of amines, which can terminate the chain reaction of the radical molecule that is the basis of polyester (and vinylester) cure chemistry. So by carefully mixing, curing, and preparing of the epoxy so that there are no unreacted amines to interfere with the gelcoat cure, gelcoat bonds quite well to epoxy.
The first situation is undercured epoxy. Gelcoat applied to undercured epoxy will be in contact with unreacted amines and the cure will be halted.
The second situation is if the epoxy is mixed off ratio so that it is hardener rich, again leaving unreacted amines free to interfere.
Third is the issue of amine blush, commonly called blush. Blush is a surface phenomena that is a reaction of the amine molecules at the surface with the carbon dioxide in the air. It forms easiest in the presence of moisture, so working in cool, humid environments will maximize the formation of blush. Any amine hardener has the potential to blush, but it can be minimized by careful choices of amines in the formulation. In fact, WEST SYSTEM 207 Special coating hardener is one of the lowest blushing hardeners on the market and still maintains structural properties on par with our other hardeners. Regardless of chemistry, blush is very easily dealt with because it is water soluble. A simple wash with clear water removes the blush. No soap, no solvents. Then sand that washed surface with 80 grit paper to provide the gelcoat with sufficient key so it won't run. Be sure to use non-air inhibited gelcoat that has a paraffin wax added. Gelcoat is applied over epoxy on a routine basis everyday in boatyards that are aware of these issues.
John Fyke
Re-Fit or Reef It
1979 15' Sport with Super Sport conversion and 70hp mercury. |
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| Ralph Iorio |
Posted on 12/13/10 - 3:27 AM
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Quick question since a few of you addressed damp or wet transom wood. Isn't there some type of meter that is held against a hull/transom which reads a level of internal dampness? I seem to remember a marine surveyor using such an instrument to check water saturation level on a large vessel he was appraising.
1989 Montauk 17 w 1989 Johnson 90 |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 12/13/10 - 4:54 AM
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Ralph Iorio wrote:
Quick question since a few of you addressed damp or wet transom wood. Isn't there some type of meter that is held against a hull/transom which reads a level of internal dampness? I seem to remember a marine surveyor using such an instrument to check water saturation level on a large vessel he was appraising.
Yes Ralph, you can buy a moisture meter at most wood working outlets. Not sure if this is correct but it could be called a Hydrometer. The question then would be , How much is too much moisture? You would also need to get the points of the meter right into the wood.
As stated a couple time here, I will be willing to bet that most older whalers likely will have some degree of moisture in the internal wood and particularly if measured near the bottom of the transom.
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| CES |
Posted on 12/13/10 - 6:53 AM
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Gamalot wrote:
Ralph Iorio wrote:
Quick question since a few of you addressed damp or wet transom wood. Isn't there some type of meter that is held against a hull/transom which reads a level of internal dampness? I seem to remember a marine surveyor using such an instrument to check water saturation level on a large vessel he was appraising.
Yes Ralph, you can buy a moisture meter at most wood working outlets. Not sure if this is correct but it could be called a Hydrometer. The question then would be , How much is too much moisture? You would also need to get the points of the meter right into the wood.
As stated a couple time here, I will be willing to bet that most older whalers likely will have some degree of moisture in the internal wood and particularly if measured near the bottom of the transom.
As a result of my 13' living in this North Texas heat and dry air, I'm sure that if my Whaler was once damp....it's dry now!!
Great discussion.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| Gamalot |
Posted on 12/13/10 - 7:21 AM
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CES wrote:
Gamalot wrote:
Ralph Iorio wrote:
Quick question since a few of you addressed damp or wet transom wood. Isn't there some type of meter that is held against a hull/transom which reads a level of internal dampness? I seem to remember a marine surveyor using such an instrument to check water saturation level on a large vessel he was appraising.
Yes Ralph, you can buy a moisture meter at most wood working outlets. Not sure if this is correct but it could be called a Hydrometer. The question then would be , How much is too much moisture? You would also need to get the points of the meter right into the wood.
As stated a couple time here, I will be willing to bet that most older whalers likely will have some degree of moisture in the internal wood and particularly if measured near the bottom of the transom.
As a result of my 13' living in this North Texas heat and dry air, I'm sure that if my Whaler was once damp....it's dry now!!
Great discussion.
I would not be too sure of that Cliff. If water ever did get between the hulls it will take plenty of ventilation to allow it back out. Just for fun put a wet cotton ball inside of a sealed baggie and leave it out in the sun. As long as the bag remains sealed it will take a very long time to dry.
The culprit that concerns me most is mold and mildew that will lead to wood rot. Teak is a fabulous wood and extremely rot resistant however it still requires the ability to breath and dry out to remain so. When Teak wood is fully sealed with varnish or Poly we take away the breathing and oiled Teak will always out last sealed Teak. Any wood that is enclosed in a dark and dam area will eventually succumb to failure.
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| CES |
Posted on 12/13/10 - 9:14 AM
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Gamalot wrote:
I would not be too sure of that Cliff. If water ever did get between the hulls it will take plenty of ventilation to allow it back out. Just for fun put a wet cotton ball inside of a sealed baggie and leave it out in the sun. As long as the bag remains sealed it will take a very long time to dry.
Ya, I know what you mean....I was basically saying it tongue in cheek just to emphasize just how dry it gets here in North Texas.
Thanks for the reply.
Cliff
1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker |
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| Ralph Iorio |
Posted on 12/13/10 - 12:19 PM
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I'm aware of an hydrometer, I believe lumber mills also use them to QC check their drying processes. The instrument I was referring to operated, I believe, on transmitted frequencies. Wet wood bounces a different frequency tan dry, just like a rocky bottom vs. mud. It's some type sonargram. I think Whaler uses something like it to locate posssible void cavities in hull molds that need more foam. Marine surveyors use the device to measure the degree of hull saturation. It gives them an idea as to stringer integrity and added weight on large vessels. A boat in the 35 - 50 foot range can easily have hundreds of pounds of water imbedded in its below deck structure due to crack seepage or severe blistering.
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| zappaddles |
Posted on 12/13/10 - 3:56 PM
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Ralph,
I use a moisture meter every day on the job. Drag your boat over to Suwanee and we'll have a look at her. My meter is a dual function design: radio frequency mode or pin type intrusive mode.
Zap
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