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Montauk Handling Question
DownTonset	#1  Posted on 09/10/10 - 3:41 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 54 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/09/10	I have recently purchased an '84 Montauk, and I have already grown to appreciate what a capable boat it is for its size. My one complaint is the boat's desire to bury the port sponson at speed, thus creating a pronounced list that adversely effects stability and handling. I have experienced similar symptoms with other boats, and in each case, a simple adjustment of the outboard's trim tab was all that was needed to fix the problem. Not so here. I have set the trim tab to every position available within a 180-degree arc, but the boat still wants to list to port at high speeds. My only conclusion is that the fishfinder transducer, which is located on the transom at the top of the "notch" between the main hull and the starboard sponson, is creating sufficien lift and/or drag to unbalance the boat. I don't use fishfinders very often, but I like to have one on board for the few times during the season when it comes in handy. My question to you experienced Whalerites is this: Have you encountered this problem? If so, how did you fix it? The obvious answer is to relocate the transducer, but before I go drilling more holes in the hull, I'd like to get some feedback from those in the know. Edited by DownTonset on 09/10/10 - 3:47 AM 1984 Montauk--1984 Evinrude 90
TechTeach	#2  Posted on 09/10/10 - 4:30 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 120 Comments: 1 Joined: 06/09/09	Its not the transducer, its the torque from the prop, most whalers and small boats do it. You can shift some weight or install trim tabs. Edited by TechTeach on 09/10/10 - 5:36 AM
DownTonset	#3  Posted on 09/10/10 - 4:47 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 54 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/09/10	TechTeach wrote: Its not the transducer, its the torgu from the prop, most whalers and small boats do it. You can shift some weight or install trim tabs. If it was just prop torque, adjusting the tab would fix it. That's been my experiece, at least. Maybe this boat is different? 1984 Montauk--1984 Evinrude 90
Wcsmall	#4  Posted on 09/10/10 - 5:04 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1 Comments: 0 Joined: 09/28/09	I have heard that a over powered Montauk will do the same thing and even flip. Is this a mith or really true? I have a 2000 150 HP I was considering putting on my Montauk but dont want to create a death trap.
TechTeach	#5  Posted on 09/10/10 - 5:39 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 120 Comments: 1 Joined: 06/09/09	DownTonset wrote: TechTeach wrote: Its not the transducer, its the torgu from the prop, most whalers and small boats do it. You can shift some weight or install trim tabs. If it was just prop torque, adjusting the tab would fix it. That's been my experiece, at least. Maybe this boat is different? The torque tab would correct a handling issue like the motor pulling to one side or the wheel being pulled out of your hands. Torque from the prop is actually causing the boat to lean against the rotation of the prop. You could try dropping the pitch on the prop if it really bothers you. I mounted the battery on the starboard side to correct it a little on my 15.
Tom W Clark	#6  Posted on 09/10/10 - 6:32 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Let me guess: the motor is mounted all the way down on the transom, right? Exactly what propeller are you using? The torque tab needs to be set to the correct position, the one where steering effort is neutral when the boat is at normal cruising speed and and trimmed to its normal position. In adjusting the torque tab (trim ta through it full range of adjustment (which is nowhere near 180 degrees) you should have felt a huge difference between it set to port and then to starboard. Did that happen? The position you describe for your transducer is the worst possible spot as the hull tends to "funnel" air along there and that will interfere with the transducer's operation. The transducer could be affecting the list, but today's transducer are much smaller than the ones of old and they usually do not affect the list too much. At any rate, given that it is in a lousy spot, try moving the tansducer elsewhere. Do not fret about a few little screw holes. Fill them and drill new ones.
DownTonset	#7  Posted on 09/11/10 - 2:54 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 54 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/09/10	Thanks for the input thus far. You are correct, Tom--the engine is mounted all the way down. Would raising it a hole or two make a significant difference? Unfortunately, I won't be on the Cape again until next weekend, so I can't say at the moment whether doing so would place the cav plate too high relative to the bottom of the keel. Perhaps you (or someone else on this site) would know off-hand. I don't know exactly what prop is on the motor, either. I will have to wait until next Saturday to relay that information, but my guess is that the pitch is fairly low. I say this because, when the throttle is decked from trolling speed, the boat practically jumps out of the water, and it's on plane and accellerating hard almost instantaneously. Maybe all similarly powered Montauks behave this way, but I haven't experienced this kind of throttle response from any of my other boats. As far as the torque tab is concerned, setting its trailing edge to starboard about 30-35 degrees appears to provide the most relief. From there, it seems like the closer the trailing edge gets to the port side of the boat, the worse the problem becomes. Finally, there is the transducer issue. I'm not sure how old the fishfinder is (it came with the boat), but at approximately one and a quarter inches in diameter and four or five inches in length, the transducer might be large enough to adversely effect the hydrodynamics of a boat this light. I still think it could be part of the problem. Edited by DownTonset on 09/11/10 - 1:50 PM 1984 Montauk--1984 Evinrude 90
DWinter	#8  Posted on 09/11/10 - 3:55 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 252 Comments: 0 Joined: 01/02/10	Does raising the engine trim help or change it at all? Duane G Winter 1984 BW Sport 15 Center Console
Tom W Clark	#9  Posted on 09/11/10 - 6:15 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Yes, the trailing edge of the trim tab should be to starboard, 30-35 degrees. That is the normal position for standard rotation motors. The list to port is caused by several related things. The propeller offers resistance to turning so the motor wants to turn the opposite direction and since it is essentially a lever arm between the propeller shaft and the hull, it will cause the hull to twist to counter clockwise thus leading to some list to port. If the trim tab is NOT set up correctly, it can exacerbate the problem by means of the same same lever arm effect. Furthermore, when the prop is not directly aligned to the flow of water around it (it rarely is) the thrust generated by the propeller will not be laterally symmetrical, i.e., there will be greater thrust on one side of the propeller than the other and will cause some pull. Yes, raising the motor will shorten the lever arm length and reduce the amount of influence these different hitting on the list to port. It would be very helpful to know exactly what propeller is on there now.
HarleyFXDL	#10  Posted on 09/12/10 - 5:37 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 917 Comments: 30 Joined: 07/24/07	In this case Tom, would it help to know RPM at WOT? Kevin 1988 11' Super Sport, 1987 Johnson 15hp. If you think education is expensive, try ignorance "Vegetarian - old Indian word for bad fisherman."
Tom W Clark	#11  Posted on 09/12/10 - 10:01 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	WOT RPM is only relevant insofar as it helps indicate if the boat is propped correctly. An over-propped boat will have a greater tendency to list.
DownTonset	#12  Posted on 09/12/10 - 11:59 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 54 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/09/10	DWinter wrote: Does raising the engine trim help it at all? A little bit. Not much at WOT, though. 1984 Montauk--1984 Evinrude 90
Ralph Iorio	#13  Posted on 09/14/10 - 5:27 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 86 Comments: 1 Joined: 06/30/10	Hi Down It's amazing that I just happened across this discussion as I just put a fix on the exact problen you're having. I recently acquired an 89 Montauk 17 with an 89 Johnson 90. When I powered up on my very first bay run the list to port was more than noticeable...and uncomfortable. Here's what I did to correct it totally. I had some Trek deck planks left over from a recent home improvement project (Trek is a composite plastic-type material used for lifetime decking and sold at both Lowes and HD). I cut a block 3" x 4" x 3/4" thick. I then cut it diagonally in my compound mitre saw across the 4" side at 15 degrees of angle. Next, I drilled a few 1/4 holes on but not through the surface to make for a better adhesive grip. I lightly sanded my bottom at the port stern even with the transom along the second notch. Next, I applied a layer of 3M 5200 quick set adhesive. Using a similarly angled piece of 2x2 I pressed my homemade trim tab to the bottom of my hull (pointed end forward of course) and let it cure for 24 hours. It turned out to be just what the octorordered...she now rides flat as a board at any speed...I seem to have a little more resistance turning to starboard but think that canbe cured with a trim tab adjustment...might be worth a try for you. I think the original list to port was caused by prop torque, transducer protrusion on starboard, weight distribution and hull design in that priority...no matter, it's cured...Ralph
Tom W Clark	#14  Posted on 09/14/10 - 5:51 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Ralph, You treated the symptom, not the problem.
Ralph Iorio	#15  Posted on 09/14/10 - 6:08 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 86 Comments: 1 Joined: 06/30/10	Tom..you're probably right as usual, but in my simple world when the symptom's gone the problem's gone too :o) Actually I really do need to get tht darned 13 x 19 prop replaced with a lower pitched one and I need to raise the motor from its full down position...but what I really needed was a quick fix because I'm in the middle of great Gulf fishing. This off-season will see the other modifications and if my little wedge trim tab becomes a problem...well that's why I didn't screw it on...Take care, talk soon...Ralph
CES	#16  Posted on 09/14/10 - 6:49 AM
Member Personal Page Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 2681 Comments: 7 Joined: 04/27/07	Ralph, raising your engine and installing another prop is a quick fix. I bet you could have raised your engine and removed and replaced your prop in the same amount of time as it took for you to fabricate, install and allow cure time for your sealant. Oh, BTW, I love lake Lanier and tow our Whaler there each summer from Dallas. See ya!! Cliff 1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker
Ralph Iorio	#17  Posted on 09/14/10 - 8:22 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 86 Comments: 1 Joined: 06/30/10	Cliff ... what can I say...the whole deal took me less than a half hour (not including the overnight cure time), no $, and the boat runs level...one can often terminate a problem by eliminating a symptom...sometimes you can't readily get to the problem as with Communism some years back, but our actions which eliminated economic support, and neutralized unfriendly forces eventually led to the "wall" coming down and dissolution of the Kremlin...we never touched either item physically...amazing how world politics can fall in the same thread with outboard motor notches and prop pitches ) I'll look for you at Lake Lanier...Ralph
CES	#18  Posted on 09/14/10 - 7:18 PM
Member Personal Page Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 2681 Comments: 7 Joined: 04/27/07	Lol. I with ya bro. Cliff 1966 13' Sport with a 1993 40hp Yamaha 2 Smoker
DownTonset	#19  Posted on 09/15/10 - 3:28 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 54 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/09/10	Ralph Iorio wrote: Hi Down It's amazing that I just happened across this discussion as I just put a fix on the exact problen you're having. I recently acquired an 89 Montauk 17 with an 89 Johnson 90. When I powered up on my very first bay run the list to port was more than noticeable...and uncomfortable. Here's what I did to correct it totally... Interesting post, Ralph, and a nice bit of out-of-the-box thinking on your part. Around here, we'd call that "Yankee ingenuity", but that might be insulting to a Texas guy. I'm glad your fix worked out for you, but I think I will try the more conventional remedies suggested in this thread first. The permanence of 5200 scares me in a situation like this, and the last thing I want is a twelve-square-inch hole in my gelcoat if things don't work out. This weekend, I plan on repositioning the fishfinder transducer (if I don't remove it altogether), bumping the engine up a hole or two, and possibly re-propping, if it seems appropriate. Thanks for all the help, guys. I'll let you know how it goes. 1984 Montauk--1984 Evinrude 90
msd58	#20  Posted on 09/15/10 - 3:36 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 115 Comments: 9 Joined: 04/08/06	FYI I have my transducer mounted on starboard side. The port side still rides lower than starboard. I will try moving my trim tab anode like previous poster mentioned.