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Drain Tube Replacement Suggestions
mct	#1  Posted on 09/03/10 - 7:54 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 41 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/10/10	I have a 1987 18' Outrage. I am replacing the drain tube in the bilge area. I have replaced other tubes using the procedures discussed on this site with good results (also have had lots of practice), but this is my first time with this tube and dealing with the angle on the bottom of the hull. I have also read the posts which address the angle issue. I am using a threaded flaring tool. After flaring one end and getting the tube in place, in order to have enough tube to capture the o ring on the "short" side I have too much tube to get a good seal on the "long" side. I tried using a ball peen hammer to flare the long side to finish the flare, but I did not like the result. Also, in light of the tools that I have to work with, I am not able to customize the flaring tool. I am going to attempt to cut the tube at angle and use a smaller thread; notwithstanding, if folks have any suggestions on how to deal with the angle I would be appreciate them. Any tricks to keeping the o ring in place if I shorten the amount of tube I am working with on the short side?
JohnnyCW	#2  Posted on 09/03/10 - 8:05 AM
Member Posts: 684 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/16/09	Did you use the ball peen hammer to actually hammer the tube or did you hold the ball peen to the tube and hit the flat end with another hammer? The latter offers much more control and usually a satisfactory result. Can still take practice though.
mct	#3  Posted on 09/03/10 - 8:22 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 41 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/10/10	Thanks for the reply. I put the ball peen hammer on the rim of the tube and tapped the flat end with another hammer. I put it on the rim of the flare so as to only have the one side curl over. I ended up tapping my way around half the tube. It wasn't pretty. I decided to try again because the flare was not even - a little wavey- and I questioned whether I had a good seal. I am less concerned about how it looks as long as it is sealed properly. I don't mind if I have night of trial and error ahead of me, once I have it figured out I will know what do next time. Thanks
JohnnyCW	#4  Posted on 09/03/10 - 10:55 AM
Member Posts: 684 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/16/09	There are a variety of ways to improve the seal without relying on the o-ring around the tube. I don't trust just the o-ring. My method requires a fair bit of work but its not difficult. I use the brass tubing as a mandrel and wrap a few layers of fiberglass cloth around it. Wrap the brass tubing with wax paper first so you can slide the fiberglass off. I let the fiberglass setup them remove it from the brass. This gives me a fiberglass tube. I then epoxy the fiberglass tube into the drain trimming and fairing the inside and outside flush with the hull. I then install the brass tube in the conventional manner. No matter what happens to the brass, water will have a tough time getting into the foam at the drain. I'm sure you already know but one of the most important steps to getting the brass to roll over nicely is making sure the ends have been annealed good. Edited by JohnnyCW on 09/03/10 - 10:57 AM
Joe Kriz	#5  Posted on 09/03/10 - 11:32 AM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Here is my method for doing the outside angle on the tube. I use the flaring tool to begin with. Insert the tube with the flair already formed on one end into the hole along with the O-ring. I also use 4200 around the tube and O-ring. Use the flaring tool to flare the outside end of the tube until the flare hits one side of the hull. After that I finish the angle side of the tube with the flat end of the ball peen hammer so the flair fits the angle of the hull. You don't have to hit the tube very hard as it should bend fairly easily with the hammer. Works for me and looks just like it would if you used the flaring tool only on the non angled installations. Good Luck
mct	#6  Posted on 09/03/10 - 12:06 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 41 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/10/10	Thank you for the replies. Have you ever run into any trouble getting a good seal on the angle side that you use the hammer on? When I cut the tube, I try to leave about a 1/4 inch to flare over the o ring on each end (I also put a little 4200 around the base). This has worked well in the past. In my current situation, on the angle side, my 1/4 inch turns into about 3/8 of an inch. I did hammer it over once, but questioned whether I got a good seal so I started over. I did not try the flat end of the hammer, but I will give that a shot. When I cut the tube a little shorter, the o ring just pops out. I have also received the suggestion of cutting the tube to match the angle of the hull and use a smaller thread to compensate for the angle. I may give that a try, my only reservation being that I will be cutting the tube by hand and may not get the exact cut/angle that I want. The other thought I had was putting the preflared end on the outside; however, I am then stuck with the same problem on the inside and with less room to work. I do heat up both ends until the tube looks blue and then drop it in water. I learned that heating it until turns red resulted in the tube bulging when I flared it. For what it is worth, flaring the tubes to 90 degrees is very easy, after that, it is as if I never heated the tube. Why it does this, I don't know, but it does make finishing the flare with the tool a little harder and it makes using the hammer somewhat difficult as I had to hit it good a couple of times to get the brass to curl over.
Joe Kriz	#7  Posted on 09/03/10 - 12:17 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Are you cutting the tube at the same angle as the outside of the hull? You don't want to cut the tube straight across. You want the same angle as the hull. This way the flair is at the uniform angle when finished. Also see this article and Comment #1 stating 5/16 of an inch for the flare. http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=42 Edited by Joe Kriz on 09/03/10 - 12:21 PM
mct	#8  Posted on 09/03/10 - 12:37 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 41 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/10/10	Thanks for the link. I have been cutting it straight and, the more I think about it, I am quickly realizing that is where I am going wrong. When replacing other tubes (namely from the anchor locker), I have dealt with much smaller angles. In those instances, I cut the tubes straight, but was still able to get a good seal just using the flaring tool and minimal use of a ball peen hammer. I was hoping to do the same thing here, obviously that hasn't worked out for me. After cutting the tube and getting it in place, are you using a smaller/thinner thread or going with the bolt that comes with the flaring tool? I will put down the tube cutter and will get out the hack saw this evening. Thanks again.
Joe Kriz	#9  Posted on 09/03/10 - 12:50 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	I was using the standard Flaring Tool and bolt.
monti currie	#10  Posted on 09/03/10 - 1:54 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 28 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/13/10	well i have a question along the same subject. i just dicovered the last 1/2 inch of my drain tube, from the sump area in the stern of my 15 ss has cracked and i can pull it from the hull. i can not pull the other end out of the hull because it is too long to clear the sump. what is a good fix? can i simply seal off both ends of the drain tube to the hull and what would i use to do that or should i cut the tube and start over with a new tube? sorry to break in on your subject but it is along the same lines. thanks monti
Joe Kriz	#11  Posted on 09/03/10 - 1:57 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	monti, Get the old tube out. Cut it if you have to. Then put a new tube in. See the same article as I listed above.
monti currie	#12  Posted on 09/04/10 - 4:14 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 28 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/13/10	joe what is a good way to tell if you have alot of water in the transom area. and how long does it take to dry in the summer heat. monti
MW	#13  Posted on 09/04/10 - 5:25 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 1827 Comments: 10 Joined: 01/08/06	I flattened the tube out w/ water pump pliers as I pulled it forward into the sump area. I then curled it in on itself w/needle nosed pliers as I pulled it forward (like you are winding up a clock). Matt
mct	#14  Posted on 09/05/10 - 7:25 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 41 Comments: 0 Joined: 05/10/10	To complete the thread, after several attempts, I finally got it right and will be back on the water tomorrow. For me, the trick was cutting the tube at an agle and making sure that I had enough tube to flare over the o ring on the angle side. I am pleased with the results. Only thing I would do differently is I apparently heated the tube too much as I have a wave/ridge on the inside of the tube that I will need to deal with the next time I replace the tube. Hopefully it will just collapse on itself. Thanks again for the help.