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Repowering 1964 Sakonnet
thetis	#1  Posted on 08/14/10 - 6:30 AM
Member Posts: 58 Comments: 1 Joined: 08/10/07	It is time to replace the 1984 60hp Johnson on my 1964 Skaonnet. The 60hp was adequate power,, except for wakeboarding and skiing. I live in British Columbia, Canada, where the 2cycle 90 hp Yamaha is still available. The 2 top candidates are the 2cycle 90 HP yamaha or the 90HP Etec salt water. Comments? Suggestions? Recommendations? Propeller size? Good Dealers in BC or NW Washington? Thanks Patrick
Fishmore	#2  Posted on 08/14/10 - 10:33 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 270 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/20/07	Patrick, I will offer these comments Yamaha Older proven engine, lighter in weight, less fuel efficient, easier to repair at home, lower initial cost, uses standard two-stroke oil. ETEC Newer technology, heavier in weight, more fuel efficient, repairs will require a dealer, higher initial cost, uses a special two-stroke oil. Personally, I like the simplicity and weight of the Yamaha but, I would prefer the range that the ETEC gives you being it has better fuel economy. Your old motor weighed about 190lbs, Yamaha 90hp weighs 260lbs, ETEC 90hp weighs 320lbs. Something to consider on a transom/hull that is 46 years old. By the way the closest motor in weight to your current motor is the Suzuki 4-stroke 60hp at 229lbs. Edited by Fishmore on 08/14/10 - 12:37 PM
SSCape	#3  Posted on 08/14/10 - 2:57 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 67 Comments: 0 Joined: 12/03/06	I love it. Hopefully in a week or so I'll be re-hanging a 1982 70 MERC on my newly restored 1965 Sakonnet. I'll be following this thread for sure. I had the 70 in for service while I was re-doing the boat and they said it checked out, good compression, etc so I'll give it a whirl with what's left of the season and see where I stand after that. I bought everythingtogether and haven't used it once yet. I have been eyeing a 90 Yamaha myself. So I imagine the 70hp won't be good for skiing a 14 yr old and wakeboarding, etc either?
Joe Kriz	#4  Posted on 08/14/10 - 3:38 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	How many years does it take to lose the name of "newer technology" ?? The E-Tec 90 has been around for 7 years.. Is that still considered new technology? See this thread. http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...post_65358 Just for reference, the E-Tecs don't take any special 2 stroke oil. Recommended newer oil is Evinrude XD-30, XD-50, or Synthetic XD-100 depending on the engine. I have been using Evinrude 2 stroke oil since 1985. My recommendation to anyone buying a new engine would be to make sure it has the cleanest rating available today of CARB 3..... Why buy old dirty technology if you're going to buy a new engine? Look at this list of "Current Engine Choices" available today..... Every engine on this list is CARB 3 rated.... http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=5 There is a reason that most outboard manufacturers no longer have the old dirty technology engines listed on their web site. They are fazing them out in favor of the cleaner engines.
DownTonset	#5  Posted on 08/14/10 - 4:28 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 54 Comments: 0 Joined: 08/09/10	thetis wrote: It is time to replace the 1984 60hp Johnson on my 1964 Skaonnet. The 60hp was adequate power,, except for wakeboarding and skiing. I live in British Columbia, Canada, where the 2cycle 90 hp Yamaha is still available. The 2 top candidates are the 2cycle 90 HP yamaha or the 90HP Etec salt water. Comments? Suggestions? If I had to repower my Montauk tomorrow, I'd probably go with the Yamaha 70 four-stroke. It's light, fuel efficient, quiet, and it's got just enough power to suit my needs. As for the two choices you present in your OP, I'd probably lean toward the Yammie once again. The E-Tech 90 is an awful lot of engine for a '64 Sakonnet, and as stated above, the Yamaha is much lighter, much simpler, and much cheaper. It also runs pretty clean and quiet for an old style two stroke--less noise and smoke than other engines in its class, IMO. Speaking strictly from my own experience, I have been very impressed with the overall quality of Yamaha outboards. I've run two of them over the past dozen years or so (40 hp and 115 hp SWS) and they both proved to be extremely smooth, tight, strong-running motors. I had zero failures with either one of them, except for the salt-water-hating tilt unit(s) on the 40. Good luck! Let us know what you decide. Edited by DownTonset on 08/14/10 - 11:44 PM 1984 Montauk--1984 Evinrude 90
Doug V	#6  Posted on 08/15/10 - 7:18 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 340 Comments: 3 Joined: 09/21/05	My 1966 Sakonnet was powered with a 1971 100 HP v-4 Evinrude when I bought it and during the entire 15 years I owned it. I don't know what the weight of that motor was, but it handled the weight and power just fine. I bought a 70 Yamaha new back in the 80's and mounted it on a 15' Striper. It was one snappy boat with that much power. My original plan was to mount the 70 on the Sakonnet, but the 100 Evinrude ran so well, I sold the 70 with the Striper. Personally, I would opt for the Etec. Doug Vazquez
Fishmore	#7  Posted on 08/15/10 - 6:46 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 270 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/20/07	Joe, As far as two-stroke oil, XD-100 is not as easily found at an on the water fuel filling station as TCW-3 standard two-stoke oil. At least not in San Francisco Bay. Perhaps that is not the case where you or Patrick do your boating. Regardless, of how long ETEC motors have been out I think you can agree that adding a computer and fuel injection to a motor is using "newer technology". Newer technology is not necessarily a "bad thing". Most motors sold nowadays use newer technology. But, the Yamaha 90hp two-stroke does not use newer technology and it has been proven to be a very good motor to use on the older 16 & 17 Whaler hulls. Doug, a 1971 100 HP v-4 Evinrude weighs 267lbs dry. About the same as the Yamaha 90 at 260lbs. Not as heavy as you might think.
Joe Kriz	#8  Posted on 08/15/10 - 6:53 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Fishmore, You and I can no longer buy the older technology motors here in California... It is against California law to sell them new here. Even the Yamaha website no longer lists them so they no longer make them in the USA anyway. Not sure about other countries. No matter what, if I were to buy a new engine, I wouldn't even consider older technology even if it were available in California which it isn't. Mercury 2 stroke oil is the same... Where do you buy your oil? Just about every place carries 2 stroke oil and I live in the boonies. I buy it buy the gallon or 2 1/2 gallon jugs.. EDIT: I see you said about the XD-100 Not everyone uses the XD-100. Maybe that is why it is harder to get at this time in your area. It would be good to know who uses the XD-100 in there new E-Tecs.... Edited by Joe Kriz on 08/15/10 - 10:11 PM
Fishmore	#9  Posted on 08/15/10 - 8:51 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 270 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/20/07	Hey Joe, Nothing against the ETEC and I know you like yours but facts are facts. Fact is as you pointed out I can't buy the Yamaha in CA. Fact is Patrick can get one in Canada and in some other areas of the USA they are still available at least for this year. Given the choice between the two motors listed I think my analysis is correct. I would prefer the Yamaha for price, weight and ease of maintenance as I like to do my own maintenance. I would prefer the ETEC for fuel economy and range. I do not know how Patrick will weigh those considerations but that is up to him. Obviously, you feel differently than I do but that's okay too, we don't have to agree. As far as the oil I agree that when you are on shore you can get XD-100 synthetic oil lots of places. But, a couple of times I have been on the water and was low on two-stroke oil and needed fuel. in San Francisco on the dock at Marina Green (Home of SFYC) they only had TCW-3 no XD-100. I made a note of that and checked at Jack London Square Marina (same deal there) and the same thing at the Grand Avenue Marina in Alameda. If I were considering a new motor that would figure in to my equation so it is worth mentioning. It might be something Patrick wants to look into when choosing a new two-stroke motor in his neck of the woods. Regards.
Joe Kriz	#10  Posted on 08/15/10 - 10:38 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	I edited my post earlier but didn't hit save. Yes, I'm not sure everyone carries the XD-100 at this time.. However, many people don't have the E-Tec set to use XD-100 as you can set it for either XD-50 or XD-100. XD-50 seems to be available everywhere you can buy 2 stroke oil. I haven't checked all the places for XD-100 availability. I don't have an E-Tec I still have my 1985 Evinrude 150 and use the XD-50 Can't take my boat to Lake Tahoe which I would love to do. Have to buy a new clean engine to do that though. I guess it also depends on whether or not he has a good Yamaha or Evinrude dealer near him. A good dealer can be important if he would rather the dealer work on the engine when needed rather than doing the work himself. The Evinrude needs no service for 3 years or a break-in period. I'm not pushing either engine other than the fact I still believe in clean engines. I would have suggested the new Yamaha 70 4 stroke or the E-Tec 90 for clean engines. Now with those two choices, the E-Tec is proven itself for 7 years where the new 70 4 stroke is well.... New and not proven yet.... But he didn't ask about the newer 70 Yamaha 4 stroke even though he is moving up from a 60 hp motor. As far as working on the new engine ourselves. How many new engines need work done to them? I don't think I would personally buy a new engine because I could work on it. It should be under warranty for many years and run many years beyond that without me having to work on it. My old Evinrude seems to keep on going without me having to do much to it. I guess I'll have to wait till it really breaks down before I decide to work on it myself, have someone work on it, or just buy a new engine.
thetis	#11  Posted on 08/16/10 - 12:14 AM
Member Posts: 58 Comments: 1 Joined: 08/10/07	Thank you all for your suggestions and recommendations. I use my boat about 75 real hors a year so fuel economy is not a big issue. I live on a small island, so service is an important factor. We are very lucky on our island in having an excellent shade tree out board mechanic. I say excelent for a few good reasons; he has and uses a torque wrench, he has a Yaamaha computer and all the engine and leg special tools and jigs, he cares, and he makes house calls. That is a plus for the Yamaha. The ETEC did have a 5 year warranty a couple of years ago, if they still do, that is a plus for BMP. Yamaha 90 2009 models still available in WA, but warranty not honored in Canada. Have not found out about ETEC warranties if bought below the 49th and imported into Canada. I am not afraid of new technology. Will spec out both and start to do serious shopping. Will come down to combination of price and service reputation of dealer. Keep the info comming, appreciate all your help. Patrick
zappaddles	#12  Posted on 08/16/10 - 7:08 AM
Member Posts: 478 Comments: 2 Joined: 06/03/10	I'll be buying a motor for my 17 Whaler and want to know the approximate percentage differance in fuel consuption between the ETEC and the yamaha engines being discussed here?
Derwd24	#13  Posted on 08/16/10 - 8:15 AM
Member Posts: 1607 Comments: 9 Joined: 05/09/07	I have an Etec and run the XD-100 oil. There are a number of benefits in doing this over using standard TCW-3. First, the fully synthetic XD-100 is a far superior oil and simply better for the engine in the long run regardless of the programmed setting. When the engine is programmed to XD-100, it uses far less oil, and there is zero blue smoke. Availability at on-water marinas can be an issue, but I wouldn't want to pay their prices on XD-100 anyway, and it's not difficult keeping a little extra oil on board as a little goes a long way. But the low oil warning system kicks in very early and gives you plenty of notice that you're going to need oil. One of the first things I noticed, and still love about the Etec (which you'd also have with a new 4 Stroke) is that there's no need for a choke or fast idle. Turn the key at any ambient temp and the engine is running rock solid at idle rpm. For short money, the diagnostic cable and software can be purchased, and the EMM will basically tell you what's wrong if there's ever a problem down the line. Another thing that would be a plus, given your relatively remote location, is the fantastic support available on line at the Etecownersgroup.com Dave - 1983 Outrage 22
Joe Kriz	#14  Posted on 08/16/10 - 3:16 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Here is a link to Evinrude, Canada.... They have the 5 year warranty offer as of right now.... http://www.evinrude.com/en-CA/Promoti...ales-Event
Fishmore	#15  Posted on 08/16/10 - 9:25 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 270 Comments: 0 Joined: 11/20/07	ZAPPADLES, According to my research, figure on 4-4.5 mpg for the Yamaha and 6 to 6.5 mpg on the ETEC when cruising. So with the ETEC and a twenty gallon tank you increased your range by about 40 miles give or take a few. I did some cost and range figures if you are interested... Average lakes where I fish I only average about 10 miles per day. Yamaha burns 10/4 = 2.5 gallons ETEC burns 10/6 = 1.6 gallons .9 gallons saved per day at $3.00 per gallon = $2.70 When I fish the ocean I run on average 70 miles per day Yamaha burns 70/4 = 17.5 gallons ETEC burns 70/6 = 11.6 gallons 5.9 gallons saved per day at $3.00 per gallon = $17.70 But the fuel cost isn't the biggest thing the range is what I want when I am on the ocean. I have a 20 gallon tank so... The Yamaha leaves me with about 2.5 gallons of spare fuel on an average run. The ETEC leaves me with about 8.4 gallons of spare fuel on an average run. Edited by Fishmore on 08/16/10 - 9:30 PM
Joe Kriz	#16  Posted on 08/16/10 - 11:27 PM
Site Owner Personal Page Personal Album Photo Albums Project Albums Posts: 11434 Comments: 452 Joined: 03/18/05	Fishmore, Very nice comparison. Thanks for figuring that out. I'm sure this may help others when comparing fuel economy for different engines.
zappaddles	#17  Posted on 08/17/10 - 5:07 AM
Member Posts: 478 Comments: 2 Joined: 06/03/10	Fishmore, That is exactly the information I was looking for. Thank you. Zap