1. Use the full 4 digit year for everything you are asking your question about. Example: 1962, 1988, 2000, 2011
2. Include the correct name of your Whaler model. Example: Montauk 17, Montauk 170, Outrage 26, Outrage 260
3. Include the length when necessary. Example: 16, 17, 18, 20, 22
4. Do not post your email address anywhere on this site as it is already in your user profile.

1988 18' Guardian Blind Transom Hole Problem
heyHermano	#1  Posted on 08/02/10 - 11:35 AM
Member Posts: 6 Comments: 0 Joined: 04/04/10	The Guardian I recently purchased has a notched transom to allow for running motors with 20" shaft instead of 25". I've re-powered it from 90 hp to 150 hp and am now trying to secure the motor to the transom and am running into the blind lower hole problem that others have encountered. Both the top and bottom position in the mounting slot have been previously used and lag bolts in these positions aren't secure at all. If you look at the picture below my lower bolt holes seem to be much further below the transom splash well height than others and mounting the motor up a couple inches isn't going to solve the problem, see pic: http://i.imgur.com/Tg53G.jpg What are my options for securely attaching this motor through the lower slot? I'm currently leaning toward drilling down through the splash well to make the lower bolts non-blind fittings. Cameron 1988 18' Guardian
bktuna	#2  Posted on 08/02/10 - 12:01 PM
Member Posts: 26 Comments: 1 Joined: 03/20/09	I had the same problem when restoring my 18 gaurdian, i actually opted for a transom place...that i had custom fabricated... came out really nice, looks like its part of the boat, added strenght.. glad i went that way...i can seem to post pic though
heyHermano	#3  Posted on 08/02/10 - 12:58 PM
Member Posts: 6 Comments: 0 Joined: 04/04/10	I would love to see a picture of your fix. I'm assuming you meant transom 'plate' instead of 'place'. If you're having trouble posting a pic could you maybe describe what this plate is like (is it only on the inboard side of the transom or does it wrap all the way around?) or PM me and I'll send you my email address; perhaps you can email me the pic. Cameron 1988 18' Guardian
Alan Gracewski	#4  Posted on 08/02/10 - 1:28 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 110 Comments: 1 Joined: 01/25/10	Cameron, I had a similar problem with my Revenge 19. Although the configuration of your boat/my boat are likely different, I will describe what I did. My boat is a 1975 and I have had no issues with the engines (have had 3 different ones on since new) or transom. My boat has a fish well aft against the transom. The second engine required that I drill through the fish well coaming and into the transom to mount the lower bolts. The height was above the aft deck so after running the bolts through the hole, I was able to tighten them against the transom fiberglass for maximum strength. Circular covers fabricated from acrylic were caulked to the fishwell coaming to seal the foam cavity. The third engine required very low holes similar to yours. That height required me to drill these lower holes through the fish well, but the installation was complicated by the fact that at this depth, there was no fiberglass facing on the forward side of the transom, since the plywood transom at this height is totally within the foamed part of the hull. After drilling the holes through the transom, I cleared a larger hole from inside the fish well so I could put on large stainless washers (2-2.5 inches dia) to bear against the plywood of the transom and spread the compressive load of the bolts. I sealed all this upon installation liberally with 3M 5200 adhesive sealant to insure it would not move or come loose. I then sealed the hole in the fish well with the same acrylic type plates as above. Regardless of which way you go, this may be of some use to you. If unclear, please advise and I will try to explain better or post some photo's. Al
heyHermano	#5  Posted on 08/02/10 - 3:13 PM
Member Posts: 6 Comments: 0 Joined: 04/04/10	Thanks Al, I think I have a good idea what you're talking about. I'm curious if you put any glass directly over the foam or if you just sealed up the cavity at the points of entry. I think I'm planning on doing something a bit different than you since I'm planning to drill down vertically next to the transom where it sounds like you drilled through the fiberglass and foam horizontally to end up against the transom. Cameron 1988 18' Guardian
Alan Gracewski	#6  Posted on 08/02/10 - 5:27 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 110 Comments: 1 Joined: 01/25/10	Cameron, yes you are correct, in that I went horizontal as that was the least invasive. And, yes, I just sealed up the cavity at the points of entry. Foaming would not have added anything except complication. There is no water pressure on the covers, just splash water that can get in. I checked it after 5 years by pulling the covers just to see if there were any issues, and inside was dry as a bone and perfectly the same as I installed it. In fact, getting the covers off was a struggle with razor blade between the cover and the fiberglass surrounding the access holes. I think going vertical is OK, you will just have to re-fiberglass over the disturbed area after you put your bolts in. and of course, when you need to access the bolts again to remove the engine, you will do it over again. Maybe a necessary evil?? Al
Finnegan	#7  Posted on 08/03/10 - 3:55 PM
Member Posts: 1926 Comments: 16 Joined: 05/02/08	As the owner of a similar 18 Outrage hull, I have no idea what you are talking about. These hulls have a deep enough transom to accomodate the standard B.I.A. bolt hole pattern with no alterations to the boat necessary. See the third photo down in this link for my twin 20" engine installation, using the standard bolt pattern: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refe...acket.html Since I also have a classic 19 Outrage, I also disagree with Alan's installation technique on his 19 Revenge of the same period. There is no need to cut into the glass/foam to access the plywood transom. Although the boat has a shallower transom and will not accomodate the 8" vertical BIA spacing, it is still possible to mount the engine with through bolts into the splashwell, as Whaler intended. See photo of how I mounted my engine, and click to enlarge full size: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v42...G_0356.jpg. Here I installed a Detwiler jackplate to carry the engine, and this plate has optional holes drilled 7" vertical spacing instead of the normal 8". I set the plate as low as it could go using the bottom holes into the splashwell. In all of these installations on older Whalers, the bottom bolts determine the engine mounting height. You simply go as low as you can to get the bolts accessible into the splashwell. This also raised the top holes a little, so I installed a T&H transom stiffener bar.This in effect raises the engine, but modern props can handle the height. I am using a Mercury Laser II on this hull. Absent use of a jackplate, one can also use the 3/4" increments of all modern outboard bracket hole spacings. 7-1/4" vertical spacing may work on some hulls, but 6-1/2" vertical spacing will always work. Blind holes and/or hacking up the inside of the hull are no longer necessary with the use of modern surface piercing props.
Tom W Clark	#8  Posted on 08/03/10 - 6:34 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Larry -- As stated in the original post and clearly shown in the photo Cameron provided, the transom has been notched down by 5 inches. This is very unfortunate, but necessitated the use of the blind holes. I recommend the notch be filled in or a bracket used, both options would be preferable options at this point.
heyHermano	#9  Posted on 08/03/10 - 6:57 PM
Member Posts: 6 Comments: 0 Joined: 04/04/10	Larry, here are some more pics that might make it a bit more clear. The first is an '86 18ft Guardian, which looks to have the exact same transom design as my '88: http://imgur.com/MgWm0.jpg And here is my boat with the motor mounted on it; you can just make out the 5200 in the lower slot of the motor bracket and how much lower it is than the drain hole to it's left: http://imgur.com/ideiW.jpg From what I can tell the standard outrage hulls of that time have a transom that accommodates motors with a 25" shaft. I don't know if the notched transoms on the Guardians of that time were standard or an option, but mine and a couple other's I've seen are definitely lowered 5". Tom - Some people have mentioned a bracket before, but I've never seen a picture of what kind of bracket they are talking about. Would you be able to give some more info on what you're recommending? Cameron 1988 18' Guardian
heyHermano	#10  Posted on 08/03/10 - 7:05 PM
Member Posts: 6 Comments: 0 Joined: 04/04/10	Tom - 2 minutes after I replied I think I might have just answered my own question I posed to you. Here is another pic of an '88 18ft Guardian (again with a notched transom), are you talking about a bracket like this which looks like it would necessitate drilling new blind holes in the transom? http://imgur.com/x62u8.jpg Cameron 1988 18' Guardian
Tom W Clark	#11  Posted on 08/03/10 - 7:14 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 4280 Comments: 7 Joined: 09/30/05	Cameron -- Yes.
Alan Gracewski	#12  Posted on 08/03/10 - 8:33 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 110 Comments: 1 Joined: 01/25/10	Larry Finnegan: I mounted all my outboards as low as possible on the transom because I don't want ventilation while offshore or while water skiing, accelerating and/or turning sharply at high speed. As I recall, on the 1985 Evinrude, I used the blind holes on the engine bracket in order to clear the deck and the final hole locations look very close/same as your Outrage 19. In retrospect, I could have used threaded rod in the blind holes, then used nuts on the rods so I would not have had to cut access holes through the fish well coaming for the bolts I used. When I got to the Honda, it was clear that if the engine was to sit as low on the transom as possible, the lowest mounting holes were well below the deck. Therefore, without using some kind of bracket, I was forced to go into the fish well to insure strong mounting to the transom. FYI, a quick measurement on my boat has the upper holes about 2 inches below the top of the transom, and the lower holes for the Honda are 12 inches below the top. The anti-ventilation plate is about even with the bottom of the hull. You are correct that if I were willing to raise the engine to the maximum extent, I would be able to mount it with the bolts above the deck. However, I am sure this height would result in ventilation under the conditions I use the boat, as the anti-ventilation plate would be 2" above the bottom. Even now, I can get some ventilation if I trim out. On the Evinrude, the ventilation plate was about an inch below the bottom, and I could not make it ventilate no matter what the conditions or load...I liked that! Since speed is not a primary attribute for me, I have not experimented with raising the engines. Appreciate your input. Al
number9	#13  Posted on 08/04/10 - 6:14 AM
Member Posts: 210 Comments: 1 Joined: 03/13/08	Interested in hearing reasons why the 20" would be preferred and ordered. Ability to use a lower HP motor or having a slightly lower center of gravity is about all I can think of. Bill...On the Ogeechee 1984 Outrage 18...Yamaha T50...that's right, 50hp
Alan Gracewski	#14  Posted on 08/04/10 - 9:26 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 110 Comments: 1 Joined: 01/25/10	number9: In my case, in 1975 the longest outboard shafts offered were 20", so a centerline engine was in a notch. When repowering, I stuck with the original 20" so I did not have to modify the transom. Given the variety of transom plates now available, if I were to do it again, I would seriously consider raising the engine mounting and using a 25" shaft. Al
number9	#15  Posted on 08/04/10 - 6:25 PM
Member Posts: 210 Comments: 1 Joined: 03/13/08	Al, Thanks, hadn't looked at your PP for a while and forgot you're the original owner. Were the hulls available sans the notch for those planning to use twins? Possibly somebody else can chime in with when 25" shaft lengths became commonplace for those of of us interested in knowing. Bill Bill...On the Ogeechee 1984 Outrage 18...Yamaha T50...that's right, 50hp
Alan Gracewski	#16  Posted on 08/04/10 - 10:37 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 110 Comments: 1 Joined: 01/25/10	Bill, all hulls were built the same. The notch just compensated for the deepest part of the hull (bottom of the vee). Twins, also 20", were mounted outside the notch but the hull bottom rises (the sides of the vee) to make them mount at the right depth. I am not sure when the 25" shaft length first came in, but I bet someone out there in Whaler Land does know and will likely share. Al