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Hello fellow Whalers. I am going to get straight to the point here.

I have a 1989 Outrage 18, which up until a couple weeks ago was running great. But the last couple weeks, on every trip, I've found it very hard to start. It's powered with a 1989 Johnson 120 VRO. What I've been doing is, every time i drain my water separator, I pump the primer ball, and after repeated attempts to fire her up, she starts.

I notice that when I drain the separator, there's a small amount of water, but there is quite a bit of this suspended white gooey looking stuff that, after a while, settles to the bottom. It doesn't feel gritty to the touch or anything, but very gooey looking.

Just this past weekend, I did the same routine, and after the boat running in the no wake zone for about 30 minutes, and after 5 minutes at WOT, the motor cut out, and the pump ball went soft.

Unfortunately, all I'm able to put in is ethanol laden fuel, so no other choices there.

Any ideas on this to start would be greatly appreciated.

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I am assuming the boat was serviced and/or running fine this spring?

When was your first tank of E10 fuel? How much of E-10 is in the tank and how old is it. Did you add any type of fuel conditioner to the tank when fueling?

Without anyone giving you better advice, I would rule out the tank and lines by buying and rigging up a small portable tank. Just run it to the port feeding the separator filter.

Regarding ethanol, I have read:

The ethanol in E-10 blended gasoline is, by it's nature, a solvent. It will clean grime. minerals and other material in your tank and lines. This may be what you are seeing in the filter.

If your fuel fill or feed lines are not alcohol-resistant (stamped on the hose) the ethanol can do damage to them. I would wonder about the gas lines on the engine too.

E- 10 blended fuel does not absorb as much water as straight gas. When it reaches it's absorption limit, phase separation occurs. There are 3 phases (not 2 as with straight gas). The three phases are water, ethanol (slightly altered) and gas (slightly altered).

With straight gas, the water separates and the gas is fine. With E-10, the gasoline part is modified and not good to use.

See this lFAQ page by Mercury

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I have to ask, but do you have a metal gas tank or a plastic one? Sounds like the ethanol is killing something, either the tank if it's not metal or something in the tank. With the 89, you should have the newer hoses, but just to be sure, I would pull the access ports and check fill and vent hoses for signs they are failing.

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Phil and Kamie,

Thanks for the reply. I have a metal(Aluminum) fuel tank. I changed the fuel line last season becasue i had a dry rotted fuel line that was taking in water last season, and was changed. I did make a mistake at the end of last season though. I winter stored my boat with about a 1/3 tank of fuel that was purchased in September. The fuel wasn't drained, but the marina said they tested it, and it was ok this spring when the boat went in. so i ran it down to 1 1/4 tank, then topped off the tank. The boat did run great the first few weeks when i put put it in. (i put her in Memorial Day weekend)

I'm kinda thinking that the old fuel contaminated the new fuel, and it's cleaning out the inside of the fuel tank.(that would be the white stuff). But also, one of the mechanics at the marina said that it was possible that the the white stuff could be some sort of bacteria.? Not sure how you can tell that.

So, i've got the marina draining the remainder of the fuel in there, which at this point is 1/4 tank. They're also gonna check the carbs to see what kind of build up is in them. Just wondering also, if it's worth putting a regular car type inline fuel filter after the water seperator? WIll this help or hurt anything?

Thanks for the reply guys

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I think a basic 10 micron (Racor or similar) water separator filter in addition to the engine fuel filter is adequate. I would not add an additional filter.

If the gas is drained, fuel/fill/vent hoses replaced and then you use treated gas, you should be okay. I recommend treating the gas every time you fuel up.

I think a carb cleaning will get you back to whole.

With blended fuels, I am not exactly clear, or maybe it's "not comfortable" with storing the tank 3/4-Full over the winter. I expect there will be a good discussion on the board on how should deal with winter fuel storage as the time gets closer.

Post the results from the yards look at the engine.

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I'm not buying the bacteria, I left my tank at 1/4 full the summer my Merc blew, since I knew I would need to drag the boat around and didn't want to trailer the weight. I added stabilizer but nothing else. I filled the tank after installing the E-Tec (6 months later), adding a new rancor filter and replacing fill and vent hoses. I had no problems at all, so something doesn't add up.
Let us know what they find out.

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I'll do that. Thanks Guys.

I'm hoping (i think) it's just ethanol breakdown/seperation, and not a leak in myfuel tank.

Tell me this, if it is ethanol breakdown (or whatever you want to call it, would the motor be hard starting?

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Oh...and what do you recommend treating the fuel with?at Fillups?

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bump

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I use Startron fuel additive on both boats and snowmobiles and all lawn equip. Its not cheap but i have had no problems. I guess you could use STABIL as well.

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I have been using Stabil since it is easy for me to find. I trailer and fill up at gas stations. My boat is parked in my driveway. Over the winter it has a full tank of treated gas.

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Thanks Guys.

I'll give it a go, after i get it figured out.

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Well,

I officially heard from my Marina mechanic today regarding my fuel problem.

Sever ethanol seperation. This ethanol spiked fuel seperated, drew some moisture into the fuel tank, and really got the inside of my fuel tank nice an clean.
Anyway, after draing out the fuel, they were to clean out the carbs and get rid of the gunky mess. They recommended i run some brand new fuel in small amounts in the tank with some fuel additive and keep cleaning out the water seperator. after a few gallons, they said any resdual "gunk" should be ironed out.

I was honestly thinking it was going to be wayy worse, with a bad fuel tank.

BTW, all my fuel lines did check out ok.

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Good to hear you know what the problem is. Bad news to hear it is a case of phase separation.

Are you saying your hoses are alcohol resistant? I am skeptical because a 1989 model boat could have been produced in 1988 and if the hoses are original, they would not be the new kind.

From my reading (not an expert) the older (non-alcohol resistant) hoses degrade over time. While they may be okay now, the ethanol will degrade them over time.

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Phil,

Yes, my hoses are alcohol proof. I know this becuase i put new ones on last year, when i was getting leaking fuel from dry rotted hoses. SO all my fuel lines i changed last boating season.

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Phil,
the change over for alcohol resistant was 1986/1987. With that said, I believe that older hoses should be changed, just from a going to wear out, get old and brittle. When I changed the lines on my Outrage, they were the correct type, but not soft and pliable.

Elmroc
Glad it worked out, could have been a lot worse.

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Kamie - Thanks for the correct dates. Always want to get my facts straight .

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Well,

I was able to get out Sunday after having the tank and carbs drained and cleaned.
I put 10 gals of fuel that i purchased fresh at a Gas station (not fuel dock) and ran her about 2 and a half hours.

Right from the beginning, she started right up, idled great, ran great, and after the 2-1/2 hours, she didn't even hiccup.

When i got back to the dck, i drained my water seperator, and the contents were as clean as a whistle. BTW, i did add Startron to the fuel when i put it in.

Hope we good for the rest of the season now. A lesson learned, i will only be putting the fuel i need from now on.

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Elmroc
What did that end up costing you? Startron is expensive, but it seems to work good. On the other had I use my boats and don't let the fuel sit to long so I dont know how it would be if let it sit.

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They haven't sent me the bill yet, but i can't seeing it be that bad.
they pupmped out about 17 gallons of old fuel/gunk from my fuel tank.

My marina charges 4.50/gallon to do that.(which includes disposal)
They spent about an hour and a half draining/cleaning carbs.

So what can it cost me?$250/300 tops? Definitly not as bad as a new fuel tank.

Maybe they'll give me a discount for them learning more about the effects/symptoms of ethanol spiked fuel. (doubt it)..lol

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i would check your tank before u put anymore money into it. i found water in my tank last year and went through the same things you did. i thought there was condinsation and water from the ehanol at first, so i had the tank pumped. i then put about a 1/4 tank of fresh fuel in and the boat ran great. then i lerft the plug in the rear sump during a crazy rain storm and found my tank had filled up from the rain water, so i knew there was a hole somewhere. i found a hole underneath theconsole along with hundreds of tiny little pinholes. i would just make sure your not taking in any water into your tank before you do anything else.

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Tm,

One of the first thigs i asked was, how much water was in there.

They told me out of 17 gallons, less than a half pint was water. They also told me that there no oder of fuel in the bilge at all, no fuel residue either. So i'm fairly confident that my tank is solid.

Also, i don't run plugs in y drain holes. I keep them open. Infact, i don't even have a bilge pump either. Not sure if this is good or not, but i've read here, and my marina is a factory authorized BW dealer (actually i beleive they are the oldest BW dealer in the Country) they tell me that the right way to store and run this boat is to not use plugs. Ihave been thinking though of putting plugs in it and installing a bilge pump though.

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What a great link!!!! I was mining for info on a 1989 Mercury and found out what the gunk was in my Snow blowers fuel separator, go figure:)!! In a previous life I ran across more than one diesel tank that was left dormant and anything but full. There was all manner and form of wild life living in the layer that formed between the fuel and the water. So there I was, 25 years younger and a whole lot smarter than I am now in a repo’ed boat that I knew next to nothing about. It was dark at 0100 when some genius decided to run OUTSIDE AT NIGHT (hit the coast at Mayport, bang a left, next stop Charleston, no problem) with an untested VERY green crew, old broken down boat and a rig that gave the USCG fits (NOTE: I was asleep when the decision was made:o)… So, all was well until USNY (US Navy sailing Yacht) Gannet, making her offing, calm winds, about ten miles off, when the evil diesel bugs made their presence known. The only way that the engine would continue run was if you bled the injectors and reprimed the fuel system about every ten minutes. The best decision made was to beat feet for shore because it was airing up from the S’west.. It got even better when the primer quit when we were halfway up the channel into Fernandina Beach with shrimp fleet out bound and no place to go...

I have no clue wheather you can get bugs in gas and don’t really want to find out.. I have proven however that if a gas tank is not full you will eventually end up making water. With all the crazy stuff happening today who knows what kind of drunk super bugs are around now that might take a liking to an E-10 Martini. Phil T’s great link has word on it that points out that on the good bad scale, E-10 and water max out on the bad side. MFG recommendations are dry tanks (good luck with that) or full but not overflowing, the same advice my Old Man gave me 40 years ago (funny how long it took to follow it)... I have a feeling it will be an interesting commissioning season this year and we are all gonna learn some more..

Best Regards!!
Dave