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Mooching for salmon in my buddies 17' 1992 Montauk. We ended up putting the motor in reverse to slow us. I saw alot of boats with socks? whatever? etc...? slowing them up. I have a 1979 22' Revenge and would want the same feature for slowing down the drift. Any ideas? Thanks.

Garris

Also the same feature for my buddies Montauk

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Use a drift anchor/sock, that's what we do in the gulf. Apparently, they also do that there. Why don't you just ask one of those guys where to get what you need? There is another thread you have replied to here on WC where people have also recommended driftbags...it's active right now...

gchuba

I just ran a search on google for "drift sock"...got 1,600,000 results with pictures in .51 secs...

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Silent,
Thanks for the info about the "sock". I did not want to "hijack" another thread. I am interested in specifics for drifting, not motoring. Size, rigging, etc...

Garris

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Just run that search above, or run "drift sock use" and "drift sock sizing", you will get more info than most people can digest in a day :)
You should also be looking at your local fishing forum, I am pretty sure there is one out there.

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I saw Wing's other posting about the "bags" and was wondering if those are useful with slowing drifting. I have seen the sock used on other boats (and have used one with another friend's boat) and was wondering if members have alternative methods that might be less clumsy and space saving.

Garris

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Drift anchor/socks fold up and stow in any boat conveniently. The one I have on the Whaler 27 is MORE than adequate at times, and it folds into it's own stow bag that is only an inch and a half thick. About the same size folded as a rainsuit.

I am pretty sure wing's email is available, perhaps using that would be more productive for you?

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We built one out of a Arny Navy Store parachute. I can mooch with one ounce straight up and down. I can take a picture or two if interested.

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Love to see pictures. As well as any other ideas.

Garris

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Multiple options are available. One is to purchase a devise that bolts to your lower unit. It has a flap you manually move down to control the prop's back wash. It can be purchase through Cabela's.

The old commercial bay crabbers pull 5 gallon buckets, I would suggest the draft sock over that since you can adjust the opening on the socks.

In my Montauk, shifting weight to the stern slows me down a few notches.

Don.

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Garris,

I will pull it out and snap a few pics tonight.

Kelly

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A sea anchor/drift sock/trolling sock, whatever you want to call it, will help control which way the bow points. It won't cause your boat to drift slower than the current that is moving it but it will help to overcome the effect of wind on your drift. If your sole purpose is to effect your drift it would be way cheaper to use a bucket because trolling/drift socks are expensive.

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They are not terribly expensive.

http://www.walleyetacklestore.com/sea...chors.html

I use them to slow the Outrage 18 down when fishing bait for large Chinook salmon.

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The issue with mooching is the wind. Current is fine for the drift wind is not.

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Thanks for mentioning wind as the issue vs. currents. Do you think the bags are efficient or are the socks the only way to go? I would prefer not to have a bucket possibly banging the hull or trusting its handle.

Garris

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The link given by Marko888 to Amish Outfitters seem to be the bags of choice in my area. I have the 18 inch bags for my Montauk 17 and they reduce my speed from 3 mph to 1.5 mph. I now wish I had gotten them a little larger to get my speed down to about 1 mph.

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Here's some links to what we built 10 yrs ago. It gets used 3-4 times a year since. It works fantastic in the Pacific for salmon mooching. The tag line is for retrieving it. I paid $25 for the shoot and another $10 in line. I have a small drift sock I use to slow my troll for Sierra lake trout fishing but it would not suffice for mooching. The shoot is 8' across. Easy to deploy and retrieve.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b32...53eac0.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b32...e0d8a7.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b32...f74ba4.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b32...55af9e.jpg

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Rock N Roll,
Great pictures, I could not resist the applicable slide show. I noticed that the drift sock with Amish Outfitter had a hole in the center. Do you, or does anyone know, if the hole in the center is strictly for retrieving, or is it an engineering function for use? The tag line in the pictures looks ideal for retrieving without fighting the current.

What is the big difference with bags vs. socks? I see from the product description that the sock is for drifting only (probably for rigging getting entangled) but can you use the bags for the drift? I do have a kicker motor but, I would like to keep the extra rigging on board to a minimum, and a dual purpose function looks appealing.

Garris

Rock N Roll, if you in the pictures you some how look familiar. Feel free to contact me on my email if you desire (in profile). 102.7 FM "The Wolf" plays one of my types of music. Actually heard "All the Young Dudes" from "Mott the Hoople" recently

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I'm not a fan of the bucket as well, but keep in mind anything you pull could tangle with you lines.

Other things to do is bump your motor in and out of gear. Again, not a fan of this option but it works.

One method I typically do while trolling for rockfish is to angle the bow slightly into the wind. It isn't always possible, but when it is, it works well. By doing so speed can be bleed off or added it by small heading changes. All of which is without adjusting the throttle.

As said before, having someone move form bow to stern will bleed speed off in a Montauk.

If this doesn't help consider a aux motor? Keep you main down to use as a rudder if steering isn't connected. Also consider leaving your main motor in gear. By stopping the prop it adds a little additional drag and it helps to keep your lines from getting wrapped around it if they get close.

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donp, thanks for the information. I prefer no motor running. Something pleasant about hearing the sounds of water uncluttered. I have no stereo or sound system on board but daydream with the idea of blasting "Ride of the Valkyries" or "Led Zeppelin" if I hook a salmon trolling.

Garris

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Trolling bags, drift bags, trolling socks, drift socks, all the same thing. Much smaller than a sea anchor. The way to prevent the drift/trolling sock/bag from tangling lines is to have one on either side of the boat when trolling, about 2/3 of the way back from the bow with the small open end of the bag secured to the boat to prevent the bag from going too far out to the side or under the boat when turning. When drifting you would usually only have one bag out, in the direction from which you are drifting. Shouldn't be too hard to avoid tangles with one bag out. A fish could have a different idea though.

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It appears that several responders here in this thread do not understand what "Drift Fishing", "Mooching", and "trolling" actually means..
"Mooching" is not the same as drift fishing. Mooching requires that the boat move no faster, and in the same direction as, the current in the water being fished. This allows a fisherman to fish lines straight down from the boat with very little or no angle to the lines, although the fisherman can cast away from the boat for a position in the water body being fished... sort of like a satellite in geostationary orbit...the bait stays in the same position in the current as the boat.
Drift speed inhibitors, such as a drift sock and a sea anchor, are used to reduce or eliminate the effect of the wind from the boat drift speed. The size of the drift sock/parachute/bucket must be large enough to counter the wind effect on the boat it is used with, if it's to small, or it's pass through opening is too large, (the smaller diameter end of the sock), it won't work satisfactorily to eliminate the wind effect, but it will reduce this wind effect.
For mooching, I would assume that a fully closed sock would be desirable. This is called a sea anchor, and they have been used at sea for 1000's of years. In order to pass the USCG merchant marine exams, even at the basic levels of mate, you are required to understand this principle. The parachute that is being used by R&R above is a sea anchor, it is not a drift sock.

Drift Fishing is using the wind and currents in a body of water to move over the body of water being fished at a desired speed without using any power from an engine to achieve this. Drift fishing speed, as well as direction, is a function of both wind and current. Setting up a drift pattern that covers an area the fisherman wants to fish requires skills in boat positioning at the starting point of the drift, based on wind and current effects on the boat. Drift socks are used to assist in this control of the drift pattern and speed after the engine power is shut down, usually for stealth. Think of a wind sock as an underwater sail, working to decrease speed of a vessel using wind instead of increasing speed using the wind. The sock will resist the wind.
Drift socks are like conical tube underwater kites. The smaller the opening that water passes through during a drift pattern, the greater the effect of the reduction on the speed of the vessel's drift. If you close a drift sock all the way off, you have a sea anchor. If the sock is properly sized for the boat, when closed off completely, it will only allow the vessel to be moved by current, and wind will have no effect on the speed of the boat.

Trolling is using the vessels power to pull fishing lines/lures through a body of water behind the vessel. This imitates live baits following a boat. I have never heard of using a drift sock or bag to reduce the speed of a vessel underway while trolling until I read about this in another thread here. It seems to be absurd to me, as it would seem to directly interfere with the whole point of trolling: pulling lures from fishing rods off the stern of the boat, having a fish strike one of these lures and become hooked, and then reeling the fish to the boat and putting it on ice or in a livewell.

I would have to see this "trolling bag" thing actually work successfully, i.e., actually see a fisherman put fish into the boat without tangling lines with this apparatus, before I would recommend one of these. Frankly, from my 40 years of trolling experience perspective, I don't think this method is practical at all.

I hope these definitions of fishing methods, terminologies, and techniques help clear up this discussion, as the original poster apparently wishes to discuss "mooching" as opposed to conventional drift fishing or trolling.

You need a sea anchor to mooch.

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Thank you Silent. I referred to "mooching" but and was wondering what you put in the water. I am glad you defined the various socks, bags, etc... plus types of use. So it looks like Rock N Roll fabricated a Sea Anchor vs. "sock".

I am new to mooching (usually troll) but just saw lines and "bags" in the water. From a fishing standpoint I would guess that a deployed "sea anchor" might be more in the way landing a fish that goes across the bow vs. a couple of "bags" hugging the side of the hull.

Garris

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My apologies gchuba for taking this thread on a trolling tangent. You clearly stated mooching…

FYI-I’ve been following your post regarding your Revenge. Look forward to see pictures one day.

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Thank you, Silent, for that dissertation, it has cleared up a lot for me. As far as trolling bags are concerned, I guess they aren't popular in your neck of the woods but they have been used for years by Great Lakes fishermen. My Montauk 17 with the E-TEC 90 will not troll at less than three mph which is too fast for some of the fish I target in Lake Michigan. Here is one video which shows the actual use on a boat. http://youtu.be/9km9WgxyF-k. There is a wealth of information avail on the internet about this method of reducing your speed when trolling if you care to learn.

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donp, no apologies needed. Slowing the boat for drifting, trolling, mooching, etc... are commingled. Looks like different applications for weather conditions that bend the designed use for the various methods. We did not have a bag available to us so we put the motor in reverse and mitigated. All methods useful.

Garris

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I agree with this 100% !!! It's all about improvising, that's how sea anchors came to be a very long time ago :)

Wing,

I feel your pain there...sorta. I don't know what you are targeting specifically, but I assume Trout and Salmon? Possibly Walleye?
I have caught these species in Lake Michigan while trolling. I don't fish at all up there anymore, but 3 mph (surface) was never too fast to catch fish when I found them there. I guess, from what I read now, the fish in Lake Michigan have evolved into being a bit more fat and lazy :) More meat for the table I guess, but the ones I see pictured around the net don't look any bigger...anyway, I digress, as usual :)

Wing,


Hmmmm, actually, I hope you won't hold it against me if I do not care to learn...I am sorry. Here's why.

The fish in the gulf of Mexico, where I fish now, travel and feed at much higher speeds, apparently, than those fat, lazy, no-fightin' Lake Michigan fish :) They feed at 20-40 mph. These are the slow ones. Wahoo have actually been clocked hitting baits on the troll while travelling 55-60 mph!
The fish I target trolling now, (Wahoo, Kingfish, Tuna, Dorado, Marlin, etc), all hit lures I pull at speeds of up to 25 knots! I have actually recently invested a small fortune in heavier trolling lures and trolling weights, as well as a set of rigging needles for dead bait, just so I can troll faster!
It seems, the faster you troll, the larger the fish you are likely to attract to your bait, lure, and hook, at least here :)

Bump trolling is another technique that is used here...almost coming to a complete stop, then slamming forward with the lures in the fish...almost guaranteed hook-ups. We used to do this in Lake Michigan, as well, over deep trout and salmon with downriggers. I would lay money that you will do better like this than straight trolling there. Try it.

Y'all can have all the Salmon and Trout...and good luck slowing down. I been there done that, I like what I do now much better:)
To each his own. :)

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I contacted Amish Outfitters directly. Nice folks. We decided to go with a 36" Sea Anchor/Trolling Bag for my boat vs. the Drift Bag. I do not need a slow down method because I trawl with my 9.9hp kicker motor. However, the only difference between the Sea Anchor and the Drift Bag, which they carry, is the quality of construction. The Sea Anchor (Trolling Bag just a different term for Sea Anchor, one and the same) is built to higher specs. The owner of Amish Outfitters also has a charter service (tests/uses his products) and is a great reference for helping to figure which the product best suited for your needs. Fishes out of Ohio.

Thanks all for the comments and Rock N Roll for the great pictures. I could not hold out for the correct size parachute.

Garris

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Go figure! I just bought a crab pot puller used from Craig's list. The seller said bring extra money. He is out in Sebastopol (town next to me) and low and behold ....he had a parachute drift anchor, exactly like Rock N Rolls pictures for sale, among other items. Of course I bought it. He told me a bunch of fellows bought a bunch of these together. Just wondering if that is where Rock N Roll got his.

I will be comparing the two. The new one purchased is 36" (has not arrived). The chute is 72". I may have an unused anchor bag for sale. Picked up a sturgeon fishing transom board from the same fellow.

Garris

Edit: First time ever I have ever seen a drift anchor for sale at garage sale type purchase