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My dumb question:
My 15' Boston Whaler came without a bilge pump. When I install a bilge pump where do I run the discharge hose, into the tray with two outlets or over the transom tied down, thanx.

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Moved to the "Boat" discussion area instead of General.

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Easy. You don't install one. It doesn't need it.

A 15' with a normal sized (<= 70HP) engine is self bailing without people in the back. When you tie up for the day, pull the plug.

Get a small manual pump if you think you'll need to pump water out while you are in it, or pull the plug and run fast, the water will drain right out.

If you insist on a bilge pump, you need to secure the discharge hose over the transom.

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It used to have one in it because i see where the old clear RTV was around the bottom, thanx, Doylle

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What is RTV?

Royal Touring Vehicle?

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RTV is a type of common silicone. (room temperature vulcanizing). But I do like Joe's answer!

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RTV:
RTV Silicone - Automotive Adhesive, the colors we used at work were clear, white and red and blue
Our maint. crew used it for sealing gaskets, etc
Outside the plant at home projects we used it to put on slippery knife handles for better grip and used for when adding depth finder transducers. Put on the screws for a water tight fit. GE makes it, Pematex I believe also. I used some clear approx two days ago when I installed my dept finder and GPS. I used it to seal around the holes I cut for those two items.
Some old folks use GE 4300, GE 4200, but that is for permanent use.

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My 1992 (Joe, notice the 4 digit year? ) GLS had a bilge pump when I bought it. I personally don't see a need for one in a 15 footer, so I took it out. But, the discharge hose emptied out in the well.

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While it my not be a have to have, I have always had them in the 15' Super Sport as well as my 17' Montauk and Newport. There have been two instances where I was greatful I had them installed. Both times the cockpit had filled with water that was several inches above the deck itself making the boat very unstable. So much so that it would have been irresponsible due to the sea conditions to leave the helm to try and get into the stern to try and fish a plug out. Thankfully I had the bilge and was able to exhuast the water without having to take my attention away from piloting.

To each their own, I for one think they are a nice thing to have aboard.

As for exhuasting from the pump, while it should be exhuasted overboard I have always had mine exhuast into the splashwell to then drain overboard.

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I wouldn't be without a bilge pump in my Montauk. Exiting the channels from inland lakes to Lake Michigan, the exit is very crowded and can get very choppy, especially on a windy day. Then some idiot with a huge Cigarette boat slams open the throttles in front of you, leaving a huge hole in the water, and you suddenly have green water coming in over the bow. I had so much water in my boat, I doubt I could have gotten it up on plane to drain it by removing the plug. And I wouldn't have wanted to get up on plane with several drenched teenage girls jumping around grabbing towels and saving their IPods. The bilge pump handled it fairly quickly. I now make sure to have passengers come aft while exiting the channel on all but the smoothest days, to keep the bow light.

I would definitely run the drain over the transom. I use a piece of clear plastic tubing, secured with plastic wire ties. I always flip it on for a few seconds before I start the motor, to make sure I can hear that it is working, having once blown a fuse because of a worn out switch. Also, I routinely check the tunnel where it is mounted to make sure there is no debris that could block the pump.

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I would not bother with a bilge pump in a little 15 footer or any small Whaler for that matter.

One of the first things I did when I bought my last Montauk was remove the bilge pump. It just clutters the sump area, makes it hard to remove/insert the plug and adds a bunch of wiring mess and adds the potential of running the battery down.

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I don't have a bilge pump in my 15 and haven't missed it, but it's up to you whether to install one. You can discharge over the transom or into the motorwell - both will work. My preference would be to go over the transom - why not get it all the way out of the boat at one shot?

If you do go over the transom, keep the outlet as high out of the water as possible: http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...d_id=15041

Tim

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Wait....I'm still a newbie, but I've been inserting the plug OUTSIDE the boat before heading to the ramp. Should it be inserted in the bilge area? Or, does it not matter?

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Never insert the plug from the outside. How are you going to pull it if it is there?

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I had these same questions when I was starting to work on my Montauk. I very much appreciated all of the advice, weighed the arguments, and looked at how I anticipated using my boat. In the end, I installed one. I like to crab, and the pots often drag up a bunch of muck and yuck which ends up on deck. Since I am now keeping my boat in the water, I'll wash down the deck with the hose at my marina & drain the water using the bilge pump. Hopefully the mud that is in solution won't affect the pump's lifespan too much, but I will find out.

I also could have left the plug out when docked and drained the mess out the next run, but I like to have a dry deck and at this point in my boating career I haven't figured out the trick of leaving the helm when I am solo and on plane to put a plug in, and being comfortable about doing so. I'm sure it is a matter of technique and experience.

If I was trailering, I probably would have made a different choice.

Dennis

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Well.... that just makes a whole lot of sense. You get banged over the head so much with "Is the plug in?!?!" that I never thought as to why, or when, you would need to remove it while underway.

I also have a pump, but have not tested it yet...think I'll do that.

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Tom,

Could you please describe the process to dewater a Montauk while operating the boat alone without a pump? Do you recommend leaving the helm to access the plug while underway or slowing to idle?

I always thought the safest thing to do would be remain at the helm, keep the bow pointed into the sea, and let the bilge pump do its thing, provided there is one. It only takes a few seconds for a Montauk to turn beam to the sea, which could be bad with a boat full of water.

Just trying to say safe is all.

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Drain plug goes inside....

For people that fish in heavy rain like many of us get caught in sometimes.... You need a bilge pump......

I troll a lot for Salmon in rivers where there are many boats. I do not have the luxury of pulling the plug and speeding up as there are too many boats in the way.

I have fished on heavy rainy days when the bitting was great and the boat would fill up with water to my ankles.
The only way to get rid of the water was my bilge pump.
Either an automatic one or manual is mandatory for my needs....

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I am going to install another bilge pump and run the hose over the transom. I have one in every boat I have owned. I also install he plug from inside, just in case the pump will not work or battery is drained.
So I guess it's to each his own. But I would rather have one and not have use it rather than not have one and really need one.
I do remember back in the 60's when I had a 12' aluminum flat bottom and 5hp Eska air cooled on the back and got caught out in a bad rain storm on Lake Sam Rayburn. My little boat was filling up and there was nothing I could do because the waves were too high. I finally made it back to the shore, loaded up and came home. Sold that boat in 2 days and bought a 14" Jon with a 18hp Johnson and installed a bilge pump in it. Never was that scared again.

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To dewater a Montauk without a bilge pump, I would usually ask a passenger to just pull the plug. If I was by myself I would bail it out with the sponge that I kept aboard, though I would be a liar if I said I never went back and pulled the plug myself. I do not recommend that.

A simple sponge kept in the sump was always very useful for clean-up, especially when fishing with blood and guts all over. Kept in the sump it is always full of water and ready to be rung out in the splashwell. The boat does not need to be in motion at all. What could be simpler?

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Like I said it is all a matter of preference and everyone has their reason for what works for them.

I will offer this up though, last week we had a freak monsoon like storm system blow in and in a matter of hours we have 3+ inches of rain fall. I had left my Newport at a friends dock the night before because we were out late and I did not want to deal with loading it. I had left the plug in so I knew I would need to bail it out. This is what I found:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v42...49_362.mp4

You can see at the end of the video water line in a good ways up the fuel tank sides so there was a few inches of water on the deck. Since I was on a inland lake and I had nothing better to do, I decided to see what it would take to dewater the hull and see how long it took. The boat was of course tipsy due to all of the extra weight but the lake was dead calm and I was curious.

I headed out and with the plug pulled and the bilge pump running and tried to put the boat on plane. As soon as I powered up all the water rushed to the back (like in previous experiences with my Montauk) and the stern sank. It went down so fast that yes water ran over the top of the transom but, the powerhead started to go down to and below the waterline....and the bow started to stand straight up. So, I backed off on the power and just trudged along with plug out and the bilge running (See the video below). It took 3-4 minutes of running along like this before I could add power and get the hull up on a moderate plane to help water to get out faster. Even with the plug out and the pump running it took over an additional 5 minutes to get all of the water out.

Here is a video of trudging along with the pump running and the plug out.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v42...02_954.mp4

The video is short but as you can see, you get a lot of weight rolling around back there and it greatly effects the boats handling.

Now all of this was on a flat clam lake. The scariest incident I had on any boat was with my Montauk on Lake Erie were I had the cockpit fill with green water from a series of waves that caught me very off guard. It was as full if not more that what is shown in the video. The waves were 4-6 foot and stacked very close together. On Lake Erie the waves can become "Square". This is a local term which means the waves crest to crest are close to the same as the height. So, with the cockpit filled, I put the pump on and turned to head back to pull the plug. When I did all the water rolled to that side and a wave picked the bow up. All the water rushed to the back starboard corner and the stern corner started to go under as the wave raised the bow. I thought the boat was going to roll over on me. I quickly turned and get my weight back on center line and gave up and trying to get to the stern and pulling the plug. I just focused on keeping the bow right into the oncoming seas and let the bilge pump do it's thing. It took a bit of time but it worked.

After that I new I would always have a secondary means of dewatering whatever Whaler I owned as pulling the plug and letting the hull self bail will likely not be a reality in an emergency.

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Jeff - very informative post and video. I have a 17 whaler and use a bilge pump in the back. Usually have a good old bucket on board as well! Thanks

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Yeah, that is a good reason to use a mooring cover; the boat will not fill with rain water. If you know the boat will be uncovered and rain is likely, you will do better to just pull the plug and let some water stand in the bottom of the boat until you return.

Watch Jeff's second video closely. You can see the water level just shy of spilling over into the splashwell. If he had gone just a little bit faster, the water would have spilled into the splashwell and then drained out the two drain tubes there trebling the rate at which water was lost.

Sebastian makes a good point. A bucket will move a lot more water than a little 360 or 500 GPH pump and I always carry one aboard all my boats. In the small Whalers a collapsable canvas bucket is extremely useful and easy to stow anywhere when not in use. It could save your life someday.

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A lot of great input, thanx for all your replies.
I live here on the Gulf Coast so you had better have a bilge pump and be ready for a wind change. Can get rough in a big hurry.

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Tom, The problem is, when add more speed things go from unstable but emptying to scarey, fast. With that much water in the cockpit every little bit of speed moves more water astern and it all rushes back at once. It quickly goes from teetering on the edge of the splashwell to forcing the entire stern down and wanting run over the transom itself...or run back in depending on conditions. When that happens the powerhead is also heading to or below the waterline depending on the seas too. The bow also rises greatly and you lose a lot of lateral stability. That video was on a calm lake. In a heavy rolling sea with the deck filled with green water things are much more hairy and unstable.

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Jeff- the experience you describe on Lake Erie is very similar to the one I described. It's amazing how much water you can get over the bow of a Montauk in a hurry in the right conditions, with the choppy waves in the Great Lakes. Especially when your maneuvering options are limited at the exit of a crowded channel. No way to get the boat up on plane, and you don't want to leave the helm to bail or pull the plug, because you have to keep control of the boat in the waves. Without a bilge pump, it's a real chinese fire drill. With the bilge pump, you stay at the helm and negotiate the waves, and the water is pumped out in a few minutes.

Since I never leave the boat in the water overnight, I decided not to get an automatic pump. I just flip the switch when I need it and turn it off when it sucks, so there is no chance of it running down the battery.

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It doesn't look like there is a heavy rolling sea with the deck filled with green water in your video ;-)

That's why it takes only a little bit more speed. With the water an inch below the top of the splashwell, any shift of weight or increase of speed would spill that water into the splashwell. Instead of one drain tube draining you now have three drain tube draining and it will take one third the time to lose the same amount of water.

Yes, it is a balancing act and it will require some operator skill to maintain that balance of speed and stability and you would have increase the boat speed as the water in the boat subsided, but at the same time the boat will become more stable as water is lost. Like I said, its a balancing act.

But in your situation, where the boat is full of rain water at the dock, it is much safer and easier to just pull the plug and wait for the water to drain out. Putting the boat in motion at low speed with only the one drain tube draining does nothing to speed the process, in fact, the added weight of your person just slows it down.

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A bit more from my experience. Yes, the pump makes it difficult, almost impossible, to put the plug in on the inside of the boat. I'm going to pop the bilge cover and see if I can move the pump out of the way a bit more.

Also, on Sunday, I pushed the boat off the trailer into the water and went to park the trailer. Came back and could not figure whey there were bubbles coming up from outside of the stearn...weird. Then I heard running water and looked over the stearn and realized, yup, you guessed it, forgot the plug! The pump worked perfectly and the water was being pumped out as it was supposed to be. Installed plug, allowed pump to shut down, off we went.

Now, if I DID NOT have the pump. I would've went to park the trailer, took a few minutes to put the life jacket on my 4 yr old, walked back to the ramp to see my wife and 9yr old son looking at a boat full of water with no idea what to do. I'm keeping the pump.

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Jay-

If you take a look at the sixth picture on my personal page, you'll see the small red bilge pump in my tunnel. It leaves about 5 or 6 inches clear behind it for installing the plug.

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Paul,

Do you have a sump cover?
I had a sump cover on my 1978 Montauk with the bilge pump underneath and I could still remove the plug without taking off the cover.

See the Montauk sump cover in the download section here.
Scroll down to the last drawing.
http://www.whalercentral.com/download...?cat_id=13

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Like Joe has described, I have a Rule 500GPH auto (chip style) in my Montauk and would not be without it. There is an on-off switch at the helm so I can turn it on and let it cycle if needed. The drain plug is easily accessed also.

It is installed forward to be under the sump cover, and wired so it can easy be changed out without pulling wires if it fails. Discharge is bundled with the engine cables, and goes over the transom.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v42...ic0008.jpg

See "previous" photo also.

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Just pulled the sump cover..what a mess! No wonder the pump was all the way toward the stern, none of the cables/wires were cut to the proper length. Most are anywhere from 2-8 inches too long and all the excess cabling was just stuffed under the cover. I need to neaten that up before I can move the pump further back to be under the cover and to allow proper room to install and remove the plug effortlessly.

I suppose I could pull some of it back into the console and neatly wrap the excess with wire ties in there.

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Joe-

My boat came without a sump cover. I did make one, but I have never seen a need for it, so I just leave it off. I have the downrigger station located between the side rails over the sump area, so no one can ever step there.

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I have the Rule-Mate 500 gph pump. It's an oval shape 4" x 5"...also has an 'L' attachment for the hose outlet which adds another 2" to its length in the sump. When all is said and done, it seems to be a bit too large for the size of the sump area. I like the features of it, only turns on when water is detected and turns off when water is gone. But, I need to really re-do all the cabling to gat this pump to fit properly to allow for the plug to be used in there.

It seems that most out there with pumps in their Montauks have the round Rule (not Rule-Mate) 500 gph pump, that one looks much smaller but also seems to cycle on and off all the time using the battery all the time. Is that correct?

Any other pump suggestions?? I think I need a smaller one to replace the one I have.

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Jay - You missed one key element. The Rule 500 GPH auto pump (the little round one) should be wired through an on-off switch on the dash. 99% of the time you are boating, it will be off. You only turn it on to begin cycling when you need it, or when the boat is docked/moored and you expect rain. The cycling function has practically no battery drain at all, and can operate unattended for weeks. The pump only draws down the battery when it is actually pumping water, as would all pumps.

I would not install the larger self contained manual float Rule-Mate pump in a Montauk.

Replacement teak plywood sump covers can be purchased from either Blackduck or Nautical Lumber.

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I always preferred the oval Rule Mate with the built-in float.

Both on my Montauk and my Outrages.
Never had a problem removing the plug with the Rule-Mate beneath the sump cover.

Works very well and only comes on when the sump fills up with water.
It never comes on just to look for something that may not be there to begin with.

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Jeff/Tom,

So you're saying that it's actually a faster drain if I turn on the bilge pump AND pull the plug? I would think the boat would take on water because the plug is gone.

Joe,

Can you give a link to the rule mate with auto float? I have the rule mate 500 circular one but it's completely manual so I need to turn it on once I have rain or wave water on board.

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All the links to Vendors are on the left sidebar under "Vendors Websites"
http://www.whalercentral.com/infusion...blinks.php

Here is the Rule website with the Rule-Mate 750
This is the only one that I use.
http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/marin...700750.htm

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Thanks Joe.

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How'd you know I needed one?

Joe, I read somewhere that you do not "mount" the pump in the sump, just let the cables hold it in place?? Does that work well for you?

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Jay,

Absolutely on a Montauk or other 16/17 hull.