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Calcium Chloride vs.Wet Foam
Angus
#1 Print Post
Posted on 08/18/16 - 11:28 AM
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like everyone else my 1983 13 foot Whaler has wet foam, I would like to use it this summer and do maintenance on it this winter. My plan for the summer is to cut a six inch hole in the floor about 2 inches in from the stern on the starboard side and put a watertight deck plate on. I would remove a six inch foam core down to the hull and when not in use remove the cap and allow things to drain naturally. Over the winter while working on the hull I would put about 100 lbs of Calcium chloride in various plastic containers and seal them in the boat while working on the hull. My questions are: would a six inch foam core being removed from that location adversely affect the hull integrity to a large degree (how thick is the hull?) while using the boat till winter? Has anyone had experience using Calcium Chloride to help with removing moisture from the foam?

Any thoughts would be appreciated

 
butchdavis
#2 Print Post
Posted on 08/19/16 - 7:59 AM
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The calcium chloride effort would be a complete waste of effort. How much water is in your hull? A few gallons won't hurt anything. How have you determined your hull has such a large amount of water as to necessitate it's removal?


Butch
 
Angus
#3 Print Post
Posted on 08/19/16 - 9:32 AM
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Thank you for the quick reply. I removed the screws that held a small bilge pump in place in the stern water trap that the previous owner had installed and water started coming up through the inadequately sealed holes. I use 10 pounds Calcium Chloride in my 34ft boat over the winter and all of it gets used up so i figured it would be a very affordable attempt at removing some (not all ) of the moisture in the foam. I have also read about an individual that routinely uses calcium chloride the dry out boats (Boston Whalers) that he restores and confirms this by weighing before and after. What is your opinion on the effect of removing a core of foam on the structural integrity of the hull?
Thanks again for the feedback

 
mtown
#4 Print Post
Posted on 08/19/16 - 7:26 PM
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Calcium chloride will absorb water from the atmosphere. The only proof it is getting water weight from the hull is to weigh the hull before and after.

As for removing the foam down to the bottom, you will be dependent on a 1/8" thick layer of not great fiberglass in the event of an impact on the bottom. Whalers are not strong because of the lay up of glass, it is the solid backing of foam that make them stiff.

 
butchdavis
#5 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/16 - 7:32 AM
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Recommend when you lay up your 13 for winter you elevate the bow as much as practicable. Remove the screws from the sump and any in the transom below the waterline. Use a sponge weekly to remove any water from the sump. Next spring you will probably find that the sump remains dry for several days. Use a good below the waterline caulk to reseal the screws removed earlier. Enjoy your 13. If doubts remain contine the following fall.


Butch
 
gchuba
#6 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/16 - 9:27 AM
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I have used calcium chloride in measuring the moisture content of concrete slabs. It gets sealed onto the concrete floor. If you can reasonably enclose it for access to the hulls foam.....I could see the advantages for moisture removal. A very inexpensive and simple method for placement....leave it alone.....empty and refill the plastic trays/buckets. Do not use metal buckets, the calcium chloride will eat up the metal.

 
NCWhaler
#7 Print Post
Posted on 08/20/16 - 9:44 AM
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I agree with the "complete waste of effort" crowd. This has been a bane on boaters for decades (wet foam) and attempts at drying the foam out have been futile in the short term. It is closed cell foam, and your hydrophilic material wouldn't have access to anything but the superficial moisture.

There was a guy that tried to save a 13 that was used for a mailbox for awhile. It weighed 800 pounds initially, and four years later still was wet even though in a heated garage.

 
chawk25
#8 Print Post
Posted on 08/21/16 - 4:50 PM
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Are you saying that once BW gets saturated with water there is no way to dry it out? Did anybody else had that problem and how did you deal with it? You would think that putting some sort of hole, opening, drain plug in the bottom and keeping the boat in dry shelter would solve the problem???


Edited by chawk25 on 08/21/16 - 4:51 PM
 
fitz73222
#9 Print Post
Posted on 08/22/16 - 2:22 AM
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chawk25 wrote:
Are you saying that once BW gets saturated with water there is no way to dry it out? Did anybody else had that problem and how did you deal with it? You would think that putting some sort of hole, opening, drain plug in the bottom and keeping the boat in dry shelter would solve the problem???


Hey chawk25,
This problem is not unique to Boston Whalers by any means, but what is unique is that the foam is a structural component to the hull strength hence the unibond design so cutting out the floor, removing the foam and refoaming is not going to work. How much water is in the foam? When I bought my 1968 13 to restore, my first concern was the hull weight since mine had all the classic signs that the foam could be wet but to my delight was dry as a bone. I borrowed a scale from work for weighing machinery, picked up the hull with an engine hoist connected to the scale and she came in at 280# without any interior which is where it should be. So weigh the hull first. Verify from the Whaler specs for your model and see what she weighs. If she's heavy, look at drawing 15013300 which is the wood locating diagram and look at the transom end view that provides the sectional view of the foam and transom wood configuration. Now this is what I was going to do if my hull foam was wet; above the hull bottom and below the floor I was going to drill a 1" diameter hole above the strakes on each side of the transom wood trapezoid, jack the bow up high or stand the hull up transom down of course and let gravity drain the foam over some period of time. I also considered drilling a 1" hole up in the original fill port where the foam was injected originally to allow air to enter as the foam drains. The holes can easily be filled and reglassed after the hull is drained. This process to me was the least invasive way to dry the hull out, it's just an idea that made the most sense that I was going to do if I had to.

 
chawk25
#10 Print Post
Posted on 08/22/16 - 4:52 PM
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I was just curious. I've heard that is a problem with BW. I just got me an older (1986) 18' Outrage and got little wetness by the bottom of the transom where previous owner had transducer mounted. I removed the screws and stuck piece of wire in those holes. It came out little damp - but no water gushing out. I put a fan against it and will let it dry for couple days before filling the holes.
Watch this YouTube video!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYizHBT5S5Q

 
chawk25
#11 Print Post
Posted on 08/22/16 - 5:07 PM
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If you watch that video closely, you will notice that that boat has a drain hole made at the bottom of the transom. My boat doesn't. Even thou he has the drain hole notice how much water comes out when he drills additional holes!

 
butchdavis
#12 Print Post
Posted on 08/23/16 - 6:51 AM
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Any waterlogged Boston Whaler hull can be made perfectly dry. The question is, at what cost? If a hull is so waterlogged that it is no longer safe or capable of reasonable performance all the foam can be removed and replaced with new foam. This has been done and documented.

Most people would prefer to avoid buying a waterlogged hull. I would not accept one as a gift as I have neither the time, dollars nor skills to restore it properly.

Virtually every classic Boston Whaler has some water in it. If the water is not causing problems it is probably best left alone. To avoid additional water entering the hull it must be properly sealed. Every hull penetration including through hull drains or transducers must be proper caulked and any mounting screws/hardware well sealed and seated.

To avoid problems don't buy an overly wet hull and seal any hull you buy.

If the seller allows it remove one screw that penetrates the hull skin on the transom at a low point. A transducer mounting screw comes to mind. If water drains out for more than a few seconds a little suspicion is reasonable.

Lets assume you are going to do a little on the water test before buying a boat. Look closely at how deeply the hull floats. If you are unable to check the boat in the water try lifting the boat while it's on the trailer. Take a friend or two to help. Generally the smaller hulls can be lifted by hand by a couple of able bodies men. If you cant lift a 13 at the bow and at each corner of the transom you may want to reconsider the purchase.


Butch
 
butchdavis
#13 Print Post
Posted on 08/23/16 - 7:09 AM
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Chawk,

Did I understand correctly that your Boston Whaler does not have a garboard drain?


Butch
 
chawk25
#14 Print Post
Posted on 08/23/16 - 4:53 PM
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My 18' Outrage does not have a drain plug at the bottom of the transom. I do have a drain in little bilge pump compartment, where all wires and cables come out from under deck, going towards motor. I don't think I have a water problem. As stated - I removed couple of old screws and noticed little moisture but there was no water coming out.

 
jamesgt727
#15 Print Post
Posted on 08/23/16 - 7:47 PM
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Damp rid worked for me, I had a decent hull to start with, and it had access plates cut into to deck for a trolling motor, and I removed the through hulls. Put two big gallon buckets near each major opening, and sealed the top with plastic. Rolled it out in the sun everyday until the condensation inside stopped. Pulled about 14 lbs of water out, and everything was bone dry where we drilled. Works like a charm if you have patience. Took a few weeks. So those who say it doesn't work have no idea what they are talking about...

http://s1320.photobucket.com/user/jam...7.jpg.html

I've seen so many ways people have tried, including removing the foam and attempting to replace it, the issue is that when it's done, it can not be possible to replicate the curing density and adhesion to the glass, simply because you can't replicate the jig BW used to create these. My way seemed the easiest, most effective way.

I have a large scale drying I've I used on my 9' tender restore, it warped the glass. I wanted straight sides on the black one so it was my only alternative. Good luck.


Edited by jamesgt727 on 08/23/16 - 7:52 PM
 
butchdavis
#16 Print Post
Posted on 08/24/16 - 6:25 AM
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The key to any success using desiccant to dewater a Boston Whaler hull is sealing the space. If ambient air enters the space where the desiccant is located it will rapidly be dehumidified thus interfering with the hull drying process.

Certainly a 13 can be sealed up using plastic sheeting and, perhaps,
Gorilla Tape. You'll need to remove the engine and seal every hull penetration for this to be a decent seal. But, if the moisture egress is solely through screw hole the process will be excruciatingly slow. The larger the surface area of the wet foam the more efficient the process therefore for the process to be efficient any wet deck foam must be exposed.

Angus told us water started coming up in the bilge trap (sump) when he removed the bilge pump screws. He certainly has some water in the hull and it's likely to be found in the general area of the garboard drain. Whether or not it's worthwhile to Angus to open up the deck and later reseal it we don't know. If he is only able to remove 14 pounds of water I would not think it was worth the effort but he may believe otherwise.

Before taking on a project I would want to know if there is a significant problem.


Butch
 
essrtee8
#17 Print Post
Posted on 08/24/16 - 10:23 AM
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Has anyone though of vacuum bagging?

I would think it would work.

 
mtown
#18 Print Post
Posted on 08/24/16 - 1:40 PM
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Make friends with a carney. Put the 13 whaler on one of the spinning rides with the transom pointed out.
Pay for a 24 hour ride. Drill hole at the outermost and lowest point of the hull. Collect water.

 
gchuba
#19 Print Post
Posted on 08/24/16 - 2:31 PM
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There may be a simpler method that I have been teasing to do myself. I had my hull surveyed and water intrusion (measured with the moisture meter) that was located by my drain tubes. My drain tubes have been out for a season air drying the area (I have been sidetracked working on a commercial salmon boat). As stated I have used the calcium chloride in the past. Sealing the area is the key. With my drain tubes out I have air access to the foam. Where convenient, this winter I may plug the hull side of the through drain and enclose the area on the deck side/cabin side (I have a 1979 22' Revenge) with plastic and a tray of calcium chloride and see if I get any type of moisture collection. This it the method used when measuring the moisture in concrete (you need a moisture reading in concrete for some staining and overlayments). I am pretty certain there will be a water collection. Before I start I will get the boat surveyer out here again to see how well the foam did with the drain tubes out. Calcium Chloride is the active ingredient in most moisture collecting products. You do have to seal it off from atmospheric intrusion to work. If a seal was broken with my concrete testing (I did several on the same slab) the results are thrown off. If moisture can be drawn from hardened concrete I do not see how foam with air access would be of any hindrance.
Garris

 
chawk25
#20 Print Post
Posted on 08/24/16 - 4:13 PM
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essrtee8 wrote:
Has anyone though of vacuum bagging?

I would think it would work.


I got a better idea: you ship that puppy to Arizona, leave it in the desert for a week and ship it back. I guarantee it will be bone dry. LOL

 
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