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Need advice ASAP on bimini replacement/repair for 1989 Montauk 17'
NWWhaler
#1 Print Post
Posted on 07/09/16 - 12:44 PM
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Sorry for this lengthy post!
I hope I don't scare away the folks whose advice I'm hoping to benefit from, but in the interests of "more info is better than less":

As part of a recent full restoration, I had a new bimini and top installed on my 1989 17' Montauk. It replaced what I believe to have been the OEM bimini top. Rather than fore and/or aft tensioning straps (as it was on the original), I opted for rigid stanchions in the rear (the supports for which were mounted where the old strap eyes were mounted). It was set up such that the top can be booted yet still in an upright position, behind RPS, braced against the rear stanchions. On it's very 1st voyage since all the work was done, I had the bimini in this stored upright position (mounted to gunwales at 4 points w/SS fixtures). Within 10 minutes, having not even exceeded 3500rpm (brand new eTEC 90), the bimini ripped 3 of the mounts clear out of the gunwales and was barely hanging off the back behind the motor by the 4th mount. After a panicky de-throttle and muscling the unwieldy carcass of a bimini back in the boat, I continued running her through the paces. Other than the profound disappointment of the bimini failure, all else went exceedingly well - she's a beautiful and well-handling vessel.

After discussing this faulire with the outfit who's been doing all the work, they are confident that no new holes were drilled, and that the positions of the mounts are identical to the prior mounts ( which we believe were the original factory install)

I’ve asked them to get the wood locating diagram from Boston Whaler for that year hull, and to double check and be certain.

I did notice quite a bit of lateral wobble in the rig and can imagine this could loosen any gunwale mount.

I’d love to hear from this forum as to the collective experience with regards to properly installing biminis such that they are as close to bullet-proof as possible (given the inherent limitations of the setup).

ALSO: I’ve seen reference to some biminis having been installed with sliders that allow stowage fore of the bow rails without having to detach and remount to forward storage-only mounts. Does anyone have a line on where to get these, preferable in stainless steel?

And if, in fact, these mounts ripped out of the original properly-placed factory mounts locations (with wood blocks under gunwales), what the hell am I going to do? (the BIG question!)

Thanks in advance to all who have experience and/or advice to relate on this matter.

Doug.

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

Link to current photos (post-restoration):
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/izob928zf3...rEfla?dl=0

Pre-restoration photos are on my personal page.

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••


Live it, or live with it!
 
Joe Kriz
#2 Print Post
Posted on 07/09/16 - 12:57 PM
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See the Mills Sun Top Instructions for Montauks with sliders in our Download section under Reference in the menu bar.
http://www.whalercentral.com/download...owstart=15

Whaler (dealer) never mounted Mills Sun Tops as you mention with rigid stanchions for a reason as you just experienced.

The tensioning straps attached to eyes on the sides of the gunwales that were screwed into wood which never pulled out that I have heard of.

 
NWWhaler
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Posted on 07/10/16 - 8:35 AM
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Thanks Joe!!!

So rigid stanchions in the rear have been proven to over-stress a bimini's gunwale mounts?
This has happened to others?

And if I understand you correctly, the tensioning straps were originally fixed to mounts that were installed on the vertical surface inside the gunwale (into wood)? Not on the top (horizontal) surface?

Sounds like there is every argument to forego rigid stanchions.

Doug.


Live it, or live with it!
 
GPJ
#4 Print Post
Posted on 07/10/16 - 7:09 PM
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Joe Kriz wrote:
See the Mills Sun Top Instructions for Montauks with sliders in our Download section under Reference in the menu bar.
http://www.whalercentral.com/download...owstart=15

Whaler (dealer) never mounted Mills Sun Tops as you mention with rigid stanchions for a reason as you just experienced.

The tensioning straps attached to eyes on the sides of the gunwales that were screwed into wood which never pulled out that I have heard of.


I just removed these eyes from my 16 hull to do a complete repaint, and as I recall, they were riveted into the glass. I had to drill them out. I didn't take a photo, so these eyes may have been for something other than the bimini.

 
EJO
#5 Print Post
Posted on 07/11/16 - 11:40 AM
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NWW I have only seen the eyes mounted to the top of the gunwale in the Horizontal plane. With your older whaler that would be outside of the railing.
My owners manual says not to go over 40 mph with the bimini up, of course this is a newer year model..



Skipper E-J
m/v "Clumsy Cleat" a 2008 Montauk 150
 
Joe Kriz
#6 Print Post
Posted on 07/11/16 - 12:19 PM
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GPJ is correct. My fault.

The eyes are mounted on the vertical surface of the gunwale and are not prone to pulling out like they would if they would have been installed on top of the gunwale.
No wood backing for these eyes on the Classics.

All the holding down force is put on those eyes and straps and I have never seen, or heard of one pulling out.
The straps and eyes keep the top down. The mounting point on top of the gunwale for the Bimini keeps the top in place side to side and front to rear. It does not hold the top down from the wind etc.

Hope this clarifies things.

 
Finnegan
#7 Print Post
Posted on 07/11/16 - 3:12 PM
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As a long time 16/17'owner, I dont' think any structural mount should be done on the top surface of the Montauk (16 or 17' hull). There is very little holding power there, with no wood/Whaler Board backing. I have always thought Whaler never recommend this, which is why I was surprised to see the 1994 Sun Top slide mounting detail. I'm wondering if this was done later under the Meridan Ownership of the
company.

My first thought on seeing the Personal page photo of the Sun Top was that it was aftermarket, not Mills OEM. I thought Whaler/Mills always stowed canvas inside of bow rails and never in the "up" position. On Montauks in particular, canvas is difficult to design, which is why I recommend avoiding the aftermarket, local suppliers in favor of only Mills.

I have never been a Sun Top purchaser, instead opting for the Flying Top, so I may not be correct on how the earlier Mills Sun Tops were installed and stowed. On my 1979 Montauk, whcih has both the Forward Shelter and mating Sun Top, neither are mounted to the top gunwale surface, and both stow inside the bow rail. Instead, Whaler used mahogany blocks, screwed into the wood backing strips in the inside of the hull.
Mine is 37 years old, and still works perfectly, no screws stripped out. See photo:

[url] http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lgoltz/media/Montauk%2017/Scan_Pic0034.jpg.html?sort=2&o=27#/user/lgoltz/media/Montauk%2017/Scan_Pic0034.jpg.html?sort=2&o=27&_suid=146827474920309824944212806926[/url]

If a sun top is stowed in front of the bow rail, doesn't the stowed canvas sit on top of the navigation light and bow chock. It makes no sense to me to do this and seems like a bad design idea.

 
Joe Kriz
#8 Print Post
Posted on 07/11/16 - 3:49 PM
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Let's stay on topic of Sun Top (Bimini)

Yes, early Montauks were mounted inside on top of the bow locker hatch.
I hated that method which took up too much room inside a Montauk which desperately needed all the room it had.
The Mills pivoting mount was on the sidewall of the gunwale between the side and bow rail.
See these photos:
http://www.whalercentral.com/infusion...?user_id=7

The straps front and rear held the top from being blown off or pulled off the mounts.

About 1994 Whaler and Mills changed this mounting method to sliders on top of the gunwale which allowed the top to stow outside the boat and in front of the bow rail. It did not block the bow light or chock.
I much preferred this new method and installed it on several 17' Montauks. What a nice difference and opened up the inside of the boat.
The straps and eyes were basically the same as the earlier Sun Top.

Here is one aftermarket Sun Top installed similar to the newer Mills setup.
Again, works perfectly and the top is out of the way when stowed.

Everyone is different but that is the way I preferred to stow the top on my Montauks and even my prior 1997 Outrage 17' II. Even though I had to manual place the top in this position I much preferred it over having it inside the boat no matter what it took.
http://users.sisqtel.net/~jkriz/Outra...age17.html

 
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