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Raising RPS and console in 1989 Montauk 17: Pros & Cons?
I've seen a few examples of early Montauk 17s with raised a console and RPS. While I am not particularly tall at 5' 10", I've always felt a little not "upright" while at the helm. I'd love to hear input/experiences from any and all who have made or benefitted from this mod.
Pros?
I've considered the possibility that I could now use the 94qt cooler in front of the console without having to install it backwards. My understanding is that the 94qt lid (w/cushion) fights with the rod holder cushions when opening in the front facing mode. This always seemed like a kludgy solution (Im a bit particular, and installing the cooler backwards just kinda bugs me). Consequently, I've currently got the 72 qt cooler, which will probably be fine, though just a little "cozy" for passengers.
Cons?
And, of course: Many thanks!
Doug
Edited by NWWhaler on 11/27/15 - 8:33 AM
Live it, or live with it!
If you want the 22(24) gallon white Mueller gas tank, you do not need to raise the RPS. I just like to keep things simple and stock. I also can not think of any major reasons to raise the console. It is a small console that we keep 4 life jackets, 2 batteries that sit on the boat deck, several towels, food, a small gear bag and a small tool bag. We know the console is small and only bring what we need. If you plan and pack smart, the console is fine. Seems like a lot of work with little benefits to me. We keep our cooler so it opens to the back. I do not have to worry about it opening when trailering or under way.
The best advice is to do your homework, which you are. Use the boat a season or two and then see what changes you want to do. I would not go crazy with changes until you really get to know the boat and how you and your family are going to use it.
I raised my RPS about 5" with the teak blocks and I'm pleased. I hung a rack underneath that holds 6 plano tackle boxes, very functional. It's a tedious project that took 3x as long as I expected but I'm pleased with the results.
I haven't raised the console yet but I will when I have time. Not as high as the RPS, maybe 2" or 3". It will make it more comfortable steering and for those sitting on the cooler seat. It'll also give me a little more space inside the console since my batteries will sink deeper into the floor.
I noticed on your raised RPS that it looks like you made a box to slide your tackle boxes into, what sort of dimensions is the clear space area between the tank and your seat bottom? I plan on making a similar box under my RPS box.
For tall (6'0"+) passengers and driver, it is more comfortable. I moved my RPS handles outward so I could use it as a leaning/Sitting post. Added area for shelf.
Console:
For tall drivers, it is a bit low. Raising it helps keep the wind/water off. If you don't raise it, consider an aftermarket windshield that is taller (see mid 90's models). Better clearance of water when you stuff the bow.
TroJo wrote:
I noticed on your raised RPS that it looks like you made a box to slide your tackle boxes into, what sort of dimensions is the clear space area between the tank and your seat bottom? I plan on making a similar box under my RPS box.
The Whaler purists may cringe when they see this kind of thing but I'm in favor of any minor enhancement if it adds function and this one was well worth it.
I just measured and my blocks are 5.5" so the clearance between the seat bottom and the top of the 12 gallon tempo plastic tanks is 7".
You need to allow for the stainless RPS bar that runs under the seat and the fuel tank fittings and caps. My only regret on this project is I misjudged those allowances so instead of fitting two full height plano 3700 boxes in each off the three compartments as planned I can only fit one full height box and one of the slim ones. Not a big enough error to redo it but there is plenty of room below if I had planned better.
I used cellular PVC lumber for this job and I'm very pleased with how easy it was to work with and how well it holds up in the harsh salt water environment. It's held together with PVC glue so the only fasteners I used are to secure it to the bottom of the seat. My boat takes a beating and this thing is rock solid.
I may still have the original design plans, if I can find them I'll try to post a photo to give you some ideas.
NWWhaler, I'm about 6', and I do most of My cruising standing up. This allows me to look for seaweed, logs, or any thing in the water I may run over. And I do use the seat for sitting while fishing.For me any modifications I make must conform with how i intend to use the boat.The consule is perfect for me, but raising it in the future, mabye.The seat I use more for sitting so raising it would make it more uncomfortable to sit on for Me. And for someone shorter then me, they would have a hard time touching the deck with shorter legs.
Regardless of your height, (unless you are 5-2 or something like that), as far as I am concerned, all classic Whalers have consoles and Pilot seats that are too low. This also applies to the current 150 and 170 Montauks. Raising both, in my opinion is absolutely mandatory to give the boats an adult feel, scale and comfort. I have been doing it since 1986, and the diffence in handling and ease of operation is huge. Just the other day I talked to an Outrage 18 owner who told me the best advice I ever gave him was to raise the console and RPS.
As can be seen in the personal Website photos, I raise all RPS seats 6". Any number of things can be done with the additional space. As for the fiberglass center consoles, the 1974-1982 models really need a 6" height, since the both the steering wheel and engine control are very low. The additional height also gives greatly improved wind shelter, and a lot of useable storage space underneath, to say nothing of the ease of working with wiring, cabling, etc under the console. The 1983-1991 consoles only need 4", although I also raise these 6" when needed (as in my Outrage 25), also for the wind protection and better scale in proportion to the boat's hull.
I highly recommend this improvement, and know you will not regret doing this improvement. I have used my professional design training to design solid teak "block and beam", original Whaler looking, riser sets for both the various consoles and RPS, and they can be seen in some of the photos. All of the original holes in the boat floor are used, with very few new ones needed. I have given the drawings to Walter Reynolds and you can now buy them from BlackDuck Galleries. I have no financial interest in the work at all. I know that some emnbers here have already taken advantage of this opportunity.
The Boston Whaler 17 smirked hull was designed to allow for the fastening to the deck of a variety of console and seat components. The 1989 Montauk 17 fiberglass console was secured to the deck using 8 #14x1-1/2" stainless phillips head screws per side, with an anodized aluminium console mounting angle and console back-up plate. The modification of the mounting of the console and/or reverse pilot seat should take into consideration the condition of your deck and plywood substrate. Is your existing deck hardware loose? Are the original holes rounded out? Do you already have many holes in your deck? Are the holes sealed? if not sealed, how long has the deck been exposed to water and the possibility of water infiltration? Have you removed the fuel line hawse fitting to visually inspect the plywood? Is it rotted or soft? Have you previously drilled a hole in the deck and noticed the wood flakes to be clean and light-colored (no rot)? Or is the material dark and damp (wet/rot)?
I have seen Montauk 17 hulls where the consoles were removed to replace the mounting hardware and refasten to the deck, only to discover the original holes to be completely rounded out and the deck mounting area damaged too severely to be reused. Fortunately, repairs can be made to the deck, and the console can be refastened in a slightly difference location - forward or backwards- but still in proximity to the forward rig tunnel opening.
If you want to install a larger cooler forward of the console, some Montauk 17 owners have simply move the cooler mounting blocks forward a few inches on the deck (and filled in the abandoned holes with sealant).
I know of only one Boston Whaler Center Console configured model that had a steering wheel mounting height of circa 41 inches above the deck, offering superb stand-up piloting of the boat. The model was the Menemsha 16.
TroJo wrote:
I noticed on your raised RPS that it looks like you made a box to slide your tackle boxes into, what sort of dimensions is the clear space area between the tank and your seat bottom? I plan on making a similar box under my RPS box.
The Whaler purists may cringe when they see this kind of thing but I'm in favor of any minor enhancement if it adds function and this one was well worth it.
I just measured and my blocks are 5.5" so the clearance between the seat bottom and the top of the 12 gallon tempo plastic tanks is 7".
You need to allow for the stainless RPS bar that runs under the seat and the fuel tank fittings and caps. My only regret on this project is I misjudged those allowances so instead of fitting two full height plano 3700 boxes in each off the three compartments as planned I can only fit one full height box and one of the slim ones. Not a big enough error to redo it but there is plenty of room below if I had planned better.
I used cellular PVC lumber for this job and I'm very pleased with how easy it was to work with and how well it holds up in the harsh salt water environment. It's held together with PVC glue so the only fasteners I used are to secure it to the bottom of the seat. My boat takes a beating and this thing is rock solid.
I may still have the original design plans, if I can find them I'll try to post a photo to give you some ideas.
Thanx for the info, definitely a great place for easy access to my most used tackle boxes.
There are other options to consider when you want to acchieve better ergonomic control of your Montauk 17.
If you are just looking for a circa 1-2 inch rise of the steering wheel, then look at the installation of the helm mounting bracket in the inverted position.
You could also install a 20 degree helm mounting bracket (with a new 20 degree plastic bezel) which will result in the steering wheel being angled upwards.
If you choose to raise your console with new floor cleats, double check your rigging cables to make sure you have additional length that will tolerate the new position. Sometimes electronics added to a Montauk 17 console are zip-tied so tight and with zero play length that it is nearly impossible to move a console without disassembly.
Also check for sufficient length in your steering cable, as sometimes new steering cables installed - less than 17 feet - are not long enough to move a console without replacement. Same advice applies to control cables and control harnesses.
if you want to raise your z-legs by installing floor cleats, double check the measurements for your fuel tank, e.g., the Moeller 31626 22 gallon tank is 29 1/4 inches long, as their is circa 29 3/4 inches distance between OE-deck mounted z-legs.
I know a Montauk 17 owner who crafted a very fine set of teak 4 inch risers, only to discover upon installation that he had reduced the width needed for the installation of his 31626 fuel tank.
Another size 12 footed guy with RPS risers installed on his Montauk 17 almost fell off his boat when he caught his foot on the space-invasive block walking from the bow to the stern with a fishing pole in his hand.
I think what is correctly being said here is PLAN AHEAD if you want to raise your low console or RPS.
In my case, the risers I designed for my Montauk easily accomodates the Whaler fuel tanks, or a Moeller 24 gqallon tank.
With respect to the consoles, be sure to use the same number, and same size, fasteners at all connection levels. For example in my design, if the console is connected to the floor, on each side, with 8 #14 screws, I use four #14 screws for mounting each block to floor, then 8 #14 screws for mounting beams to blocks, and then the original 8 #14 screws for mounting the console to the beams.
My experience with factory wiring, at least, is that there is usually plenty of slack in the cabling and wiring where it enters the console. But once again, plan ahead as mentioned.
bradsc wrote:
If you want the 22(24) gallon white Mueller gas tank, you do not need to raise the RPS. I just like to keep things simple and stock. I also can not think of any major reasons to raise the console. It is a small console that we keep 4 life jackets, 2 batteries that sit on the boat deck, several towels, food, a small gear bag and a small tool bag. We know the console is small and only bring what we need. If you plan and pack smart, the console is fine. Seems like a lot of work with little benefits to me. We keep our cooler so it opens to the back. I do not have to worry about it opening when trailering or under way.
My reasons for wanting to raise the both have nothing to do with fitting a larger gas tank or overall storage capacity. I believe it will be an ergonomic improvement over stock.
bradsc wrote:
The best advice is to do your homework, which you are. Use the boat a season or two and then see what changes you want to do. I would not go crazy with changes until you really get to know the boat and how you and your family are going to use it.
That is excellent advice. I spent a fair bit of time on her this past summer, and it was during this period of usage that I really started to appreciate how raising the console and RPX could help.
Finnegan wrote:
Regardless of your height, (unless you are 5-2 or something like that), as far as I am concerned, all classic Whalers have consoles and Pilot seats that are too low. This also applies to the current 150 and 170 Montauks. Raising both, in my opinion is absolutely mandatory to give the boats an adult feel, scale and comfort. I have been doing it since 1986, and the diffence in handling and ease of operation is huge. Just the other day I talked to an Outrage 18 owner who told me the best advice I ever gave him was to raise the console and RPS.
Finnegan (or Larry, am I right?), I was really hoping you would chime in to this thread, because I'll confess that it was only after having read prior posts of yours on this matter, and having seen the photos of your Montauk, AND having already identified Black Duck Gallery as the source for the blocks, did I decide that this is a mod I am interested in. I'd love to benefit from your experience in having already done this a few times, so thanks for showing up!
Finnegan wrote:
As can be seen in the personal Website photos, I raise all RPS seats 6". Any number of things can be done with the additional space. As for the fiberglass center consoles, the 1974-1982 models really need a 6" height, since the both the steering wheel and engine control are very low. The additional height also gives greatly improved wind shelter, and a lot of useable storage space underneath, to say nothing of the ease of working with wiring, cabling, etc under the console. The 1983-1991 consoles only need 4", although I also raise these 6" when needed (as in my Outrage 25), also for the wind protection and better scale in proportion to the boat's hull.
Since mine is a 1989 Montauk, it sounds like you're recommending a 4" lift. That sounds pretty reasonable, and I'm certain whatever amount I raise by will need to be gotten used to. I'll be having new electronics and the cables/wiring for a new eTec 90 run concurrently, so I'll be sure to allow for sufficient cable run.
Finnegan wrote:
I highly recommend this improvement, and know you will not regret doing this improvement. I have used my professional design training to design solid teak "block and beam", original Whaler looking, riser sets for both the various consoles and RPS, and they can be seen in some of the photos. All of the original holes in the boat floor are used, with very few new ones needed. I have given the drawings to Walter Reynolds and you can now buy them from BlackDuck Galleries. I have no financial interest in the work at all. I know that some emnbers here have already taken advantage of this opportunity.
Larry, if you don't mind, I'd love to be able to throw a question to you hear and there off-line as I proceed. If that is amenable to you, would you send me an email (my email address is listed in my profile). I promise not to abuse the privilege! :-) And if you prefer not to, I'll understand.
On an unrelated note: I have also been researching a compass, and had decided on the Navigator stainless binnacle mount from Ritchie. I just received it yesterday, and A. it's beautiful but, B. It is HUGE! I don't have the boat with me currently, so I cannot set it up on the console to test it, but I do believe you have the Navigator pictured on your Montauk (which I believe you no longer own, is that right?). What are your impressions of this compass on this boat? The alternative I am considering is the Explorer, but I sure do like the look of the stainless binnacle on the Navigator (the Explorer is available only in black, but the proportions are a bit smaller).
Along with the Compass (likely to be mounted on or near the centerline of the steering) I will be mounting a 7" Garmin 74SV unit as well as a Standard Horizon GX2200 VHR radio (not sure where these will be placed yet, but up top makes sense, though I see plenty of people have mounted their radio's flush to the font).
Thanks very much for the input. It is hugely appreciated!
Doug - thank you for your comments, and in my opinion you are definitely on the right track for greatly improving the feel, comfort and handling of your Montauk. With your console, 4" is the correct height.
that is what I have used in my Outrage 18, with identical console. I would say 6" is also the preferred height for the RPS, although 4" will work also. You will be amazed at how much these relatively simple changes affect the overall boat. It is much better than one would expect.
As for the compass, I think you made the correct decision there also, as I use the identical unit in my 25, 21 and 18. My 19 also came from the factory with a recessed mount Ritchie Navigator. Regarding the Montauk, which I still own, I thought perhaps the Navigator wasn't needed, so I installed the next size down, the 100/1000 series unit, and it was a mistake. although it is large enough, it just doesn't have the class of the 200/2000 series Navigator with the SS binacle mount. I like large compasses, and so did the people at Whaler back then!
You can see how it will look on your console here, since my Outrage 25 has the identical console you have. (see next photo forward also)
I will drop you an email, which will include a photo of a friend's 1989 Montauk with console raised 4" and seat 6", done with my riser system, taken out on the water. The boat looks great.
Incidentally, I think the marine radio should go inside the console, at the rear drop down door. There is not much room for it on the console top without excessive clutter.
