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Repower Montauk vs Used Outrage
mikegcny
#1 Print Post
Posted on 03/23/15 - 2:25 PM
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Hi all - new here.

When I was 12 my father purchased a brand new 1988 Montauk for my brother and I. In the mid 90's my brother took full ownership of the boat and still has it. It has not been used in nearly 10 years. The hull is in excellent shape but the boat needs to be repowered. My brother offered the boat to me a few weeks ago and I am not sure if it is better to repower our old Montauk, or to get a late 80's Outrage.

At best, repowering is going to cost about 12k on the Montauk. I have found a few used Outrages with relatively new 4 strokes for around 15-20k. Not sure what is my best option.

Looking for some help from people who have owned or used both boats.

If it helps - My wife and I want the boat so that we could spend time with our kids and some other family members. We have a house that is about 1/4 mile from a marina so it would be used nearly every chance we had.


Edited by Joe Kriz on 03/23/15 - 2:48 PM
 
edmaude
#2 Print Post
Posted on 03/23/15 - 2:43 PM
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My first whaler was a 1989 Guardian 17, which is the same hull as the Montauk. I loved the boat and thought I would never sell it. At the time I was just married and had no children, but my wife always hated the rough ride in chop.

We kept the Guardian until my daughter was 4 years old and had lots of fun on the boat in nice conditions, before I was requested to go back due to the "pounding" in rougher water

I then purchased a 1983 Outrage 18 and re-powered it was a 2014 Etec 150. As much as I loved the Guardian 17, the Outrage 18 is so much more boat in all aspects. We can now spend the whole day on the water and everyone is happy with the way the boat handles in all conditions. I would make the move up to an Outrage based on personal experience.

I paid a little over 14,000 for my ETEC 150 fully rigged and water tested with a stainless prop, I Command Guage and I believe the 3+3 Evinrude Warranty. This price also included a SeaStar Hydraulic steering system and fuel tank cleaning and pressure testing.


1983 Outrage 18 w/ 2014 Etec 150
 
mtown
#3 Print Post
Posted on 03/23/15 - 5:05 PM
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18 Outrage will provide a better ride in chop. If you are in shallow creek it will draw slightly more water. Look at the weight and beam difference between the two, it will tell you a lot.
I have 1985 18 and on choppy, lots of boat wake days in the Chesapeake, it still pounds, but no where near what my old 16 does. My son in law has a 17 Montauk and it is used mostly in a tidal river off the bay and is great for that.

 
wing15601
#4 Print Post
Posted on 03/23/15 - 6:36 PM
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I checked Oakland out on Google Earth. It looks like any marina within 20 minutes must be on a lake so it may not make any difference whether you're in a 18 ft boat or 17 ft boat although those numbers are deceiving because the Outrage will be much wider. However, free is a really good price for that Montauk. If you have a serviceable trailer with it and re power for 12 thousand you wouldn't lose a cent if you used it for a couple of years then decided to move up to a larger boat. And you know this boat. You know how it's been used and maintained and if you buy another used boat you will have to take the current owners word on how it was used and maintained and just wouldn't know any of that information prior to his ownership. Also I'm kind of prejudiced because I have a 1984 Montauk which is the identical boat.


I winter in Ft. Myers and summer in St. Joseph, Michigan. It’s now about 12 years since I’ve joined this group. I gave my 1972 whaler to my daughter and sold the 17’. Bought an O’Day 28 sailboat and sailed on Lake Michigan. Yesterday I bought a 2005 130 Sport.
 
Marko888
#5 Print Post
Posted on 03/23/15 - 9:04 PM
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We have had both and prefer the added versatility of the Outrage 18. More room, better ride, can go more places in more comfort. We use ours on the west coast and at a busy lake which is 90 miles long. It's an uber versatile boat.

The Montauk is the same, on a smaller scale. Lighter, cheaper to own and operate, can go most of the same places, just in less comfort. It super easy to keep up, cheap to run and holds its value probably better than any other model.

The term "pounds" is over used. All it means is going faster than is ideal for comfort, in a given boat in a given seas state. You can go faster in sloppier water in an 18, in comfort, than you can in a Montauk.

PS. I would expect a Montauk could be re powered for significantly less than 12k.

 
mikegcny
#6 Print Post
Posted on 03/24/15 - 6:44 AM
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Thanks everyone for your input. I am on the east end of Long Island (North Fork) and the boat would occasionally be used to visit friends in Montauk. We also have family that we would want to visit on Block.

If there is one thing that I remember about the Montauk was the way the boat pounded. We had it out in New York harbor one day and it was hell. There was one time I remember the front hatch came off.

The cost to repower is my all in cost for an OMC (rigging, controls, getting rid of the old engine, etc). it's actually $11,700. I cant find any dealer on Long Island any cheaper. Although my brother's boat's hull is in nice shape, all of the teak, seat cushions and electronics need to be replaced. I am thinking that that is going to cost me another 2-3k.

I am also a little worried about the capacity of the Montauk. It only holds 7 people. If my wife and I wanted to take another family out we would be over the limit (with kids).

Despite the emotional attachment to the Montauk, I think that I might look for an Outrage 20 or maybe even a 22. Seems like for not much more money we are getting a lot more boat.

 
mtown
#7 Print Post
Posted on 03/24/15 - 7:13 AM
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I almost mentioned the ride difference of a 22 but thought it was outside the original question. I have a 1989 22 cuddy and the ride difference and comfort between it and the 18 is dramatic. The difference in fuel use is a lot, but the 18 has a 115 4-stroke and the 22 has a 200hp 2-stroke. Just a guess, but I bet the 200 uses 3-4 times the fuel.
The ride is fantastic though and I am comparing to my [sold] 25 Blackfin which probably weighed twice what the 22 weighs.

 
gchuba
#8 Print Post
Posted on 03/24/15 - 7:52 AM
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7 people in a Montauk? Or any 18 ft Whaler? As Ricki Riccardo would say "....Luuucy, I don' thin so....". If you are planning on another couple +, 22 foot minimum the way to go. Maybe find a good used motor for the Montauk and tinker to keep the memory. What is so bad about the original motor other than sitting?

Garris

 
mikegcny
#9 Print Post
Posted on 03/24/15 - 8:10 AM
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Garris - the original one (90 Johnson) is long gone. We spent our summers using it constantly and it had a ton of hours on it. My brother's "friend" got him a 90 Evinrude with a 25" shaft used on Craigslist and told him he could make it work. He rigged it for my brother - running all of the lines through PVC conduit to the console. It didn't even come with a cover, so he has a white Johnson cover on the grey Evinrude. Looks silly.

My brother told me that the engine is shot. I didn't ask any more than that because it is a sore subject.

The good thing here is that my brother is not looking to sell it. So if I don't take it it's not going anywhere. Also good news is that the OMC dealer might have a 1 year old low hour 90 OMC coming back in or a trade.

 
DennisVollrath
#10 Print Post
Posted on 03/24/15 - 9:21 AM
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I have both boats presently, although I only have a couple dozen hours on my new Outrage 18. So far my impressions are the Outrage has a better ride, but not remarkably so. It is a bigger boat and has more room for people and gear. The canvas system is much better in my opinion, with better protection and more head room. The larger beam also allows one to walk past the console rather than shimmy.

I've almost 200 hours on my Montauk, and it is a great boat. The most I've had on are 6, but given the size you are crowded. I was just ferrying people around, not doing boat activities like fishing or crabbing. Mine is powered with a Yamaha F70 bought new in 2011, and even with 6 we were doing high 20s although of course it took longer to get up on plane. I was "all in" for $8k in 2011, including motor, controls, rigging, and tax.

For just your family I think the Montauk would be a fine choice. If you planned on regularly having more on board, you'll probably want something larger.

Dennis


1985 Outrage 18 with Suzuki DF140A
 
dreilly
#11 Print Post
Posted on 03/25/15 - 2:44 PM
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I have to throw out another vote for the Outrage. We have owned both. The V-shaped hull of the Outrage rides better than the tri-hull on the Montauk in choppy seas. The higher gunwales are nice too. When I'm on a Montauk now, it feels small in comparison. There are 6 in my family, so the extra room helped a lot. I like the extra fuel capacity as well.

Remember - boats shrink in contact with water so you have to keep getting bigger ones.

 
mikegcny
#12 Print Post
Posted on 04/13/15 - 7:22 AM
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Thanks all for you input.

I think that I have found the boat that I am looking for - It is an Outrage 20. Will post more details when I finally get it. It has lots of extras.

 
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