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Mounting a Bimini on a slide?
GFC
#1 Print Post
Posted on 11/25/14 - 6:21 PM
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I have a 2010 130 Super Sport and want to put a bimini on it to protect us from the sun.

I have a drawing that shows where BW put reinforcement beneath the fiberglass on the side rails so I know where the fixed swivel point could be mounted. But I want to make certain that whatever bimini I get can fit behind the seat when it's folded down for travel.

I'm thinking of putting the bimini on a slide. This would make certain that it could be moved around (forward/back) so it could be easily stored behind that rear seat.

Am I over thinking this?

For those of you who have a bimini, how did you make sure it would fit behind the seat? What height bimini did you get? I'm thinking I want one that is tall enough to move around under, but not necessarily to stand up beneath it.

For those of you who have a BW of any size that has a bimini mounted to a slide, would you please post some pics of the point where it attaches to the slide?

Also, did you order your bimini with stainless tubing and fittings or did you go with the alloy tubes and fittings?

My motto on things like this could be......

Analytical is just long version of ANAL!

 
saumon
#2 Print Post
Posted on 11/25/14 - 8:00 PM
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In this thread (http://www.whalercentral.com/forum/vi...ost_129614), there's a pic of the top mounted on sliding tracks on my boat, a 1991 Outrage 17 I.


1991 Outrage 17' I - 2005 E-Tec 90hp
 
Finnegan
#3 Print Post
Posted on 11/25/14 - 8:24 PM
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I may be old fashioned, but all Boston Whalers, using Mills designed canvas, and before Great Lakes started making Whaler's canvas, had ALL running canvas (Forward Shelter, Flying Top or Sun Top), stow forward, and inside the bow rail, most often using a slide. To answer your question, both my Outrage 18 and my Outrage 25 have the Flying Top (what you are calling a "Bimini top") supporting leg mounted into a slide. The booted canvas (Sunbrella) than slides forward when not in use.

In this photo of the Outrage 25, if you look carefully, you can see the 4' long slide used for the Flying Top (black fitting at the front). The front leg of the top is at the BACK of the slide track when up, held in place by a snap strap. On the Outrage 18, the track is only about a foot long.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lgolt...0454810006

I think it is extremely poor canvas design to have a Flying Top/Sun Top stowed backward, or even worse, require that it stand angled back on a pair of legs (where it wobbles all over the place when running). Terrible, and the sign of a cheap boat and poorly designed canvas! My daughter's 1999 Dauntless 14 (I begged her not to buy it!) has one of these awful Great Lakes Sun Tops. When it is stowed, the stern of the boat is completely cluttered and practically unaccessible, and stowing in the "leaning back" position is just as bad, as noted. It wont' stow forward because it won't fit insde the bow rail - bad design. No wonder Whaler only made that boat for two seasons.

I HIGHLY recommend you get a Sun Top for your boat from Wm Mills Co. Check their website for availability to your model. It is premium quality equipment, and will stow forward, where it belongs, possibly using a slide, so you are thinking correctly with your slide idea.


Edited by Finnegan on 11/25/14 - 8:27 PM
 
Jay Fitz
#4 Print Post
Posted on 11/26/14 - 6:05 AM
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I found a used Mills Sun Top locally that came with a SS frame for my 1978 Montauk. It's tall and heavy! Not sure of exact height. I purchased a Carver slide track kit online so it could be mounted on the gunwales and slid up front outside the bow rail for storage. It takes up lots of room inside the rails and my wife and kids like to sit there on the bow cushion when cruising. Plus its much easier to position the top fore or aft with the slide rails. I had posted a thread about mounting the track on the gunwales and wanted to find out if there was wood backing there, but I think it's not needed...well I haven't had any issues with it pulling out...yet.

You can see a pic of the track on my personal page.

 
GFC
#5 Print Post
Posted on 11/26/14 - 11:19 AM
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Thanks for the comments and the pictures you linked to. I hadn't thought about laying it forward and, after looking at the boat that does make sense. I don't have a bow rail on my Whaler so I wouldn't have to be concerned about whether or not it fit inside the rail.

I do think I'll order it with a 48" slide to make sure there's enough movement for it to reach the bow.

Now, how about another question. We have the Sport Bucket seats in the boat so we sit pretty high. I want a top that I can move around under but not necessarily to stand up under.

Any thoughts on the height I should consider?


Edited by GFC on 11/26/14 - 11:19 AM
 
Finnegan
#6 Print Post
Posted on 11/26/14 - 3:22 PM
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GFC - Be careful when ordering your slide track. You want it to be long enough so that you can cut it to exact length needed for the finished installation. The snap strap on the slide fitting has to be snapped in place at the back end cap when the top is up, and at the front end cap when the top is stowed.

Jay - Question for you - Is your Mills Sun Top actually for a Montauk, or was it from some other model Whaler? The reason I asked is that a friend recently purchased a beautiful Montauk that included a Mills Sun Top, although installed improperly. The main leg of the Sun Top has an outward bend on each side, so the frame clears the Bow Rail, and so it can stow inside of the rails. I don't see that bend on yours.

Or maybe Mills makes two styles of Sun Tops for the Montauk. One that stows inside the rails, and one that stows outside.

On my 1979 Montauk with the complete Flying Top set, all of it stows inside the bow rail and in one consolidating boot.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lgolt...2740093776

 
Jay Fitz
#7 Print Post
Posted on 11/26/14 - 4:21 PM
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Finnegan wrote:
Jay - Question for you - Is your Mills Sun Top actually for a Montauk, or was it from some other model Whaler? The reason I asked is that a friend recently purchased a beautiful Montauk that included a Mills Sun Top, although installed improperly. The main leg of the Sun Top has an outward bend on each side, so the frame clears the Bow Rail, and so it can stow inside of the rails. I don't see that bend on yours.

Or maybe Mills makes two styles of Sun Tops for the Montauk. One that stows inside the rails, and one that stows outside.

On my 1979 Montauk with the complete Flying Top set, all of it stows inside the bow rail and in one consolidating boot.


Finnegan, not sure if my Sun Top was originally designed for a Montauk, but the previous owner did say he had it on a 17 Whaler. There are no bends in the frame.

My Montauk came with the Flying top and and forward shelter like you have, with the interior mounting blocks, but the Flying Top just did not give enough shade for the wife. BTW, I wanted to buy the "window" you had for sale recently that goes between the Flying Top and forward shelter, would've made my canvas complete...I just don't go out in much foul weather though.

 
Joe Kriz
#8 Print Post
Posted on 11/26/14 - 5:05 PM
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Whaler changed the mounting of the Sun Top somewhere around the mid 1990's.
They moved it to the outside of the railing to provide more room inside and get it out of the boat entirely.

I have changed several Montauks to the newer style with sliders on top of the gunwales and the top resting in front of the bow rail and out of the boat when in the stowed position.

 
Finnegan
#9 Print Post
Posted on 11/26/14 - 5:13 PM
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Joe - 1996 is the time Brunswick took over Whaler and made them part of the Sea Ray division. Is that also the time they switched to Sea Rays' canvas maker, Great Lakes? The "outside the rails" sounds like something Great Lakes would have initiated. Does Mills also make the "outside" Sun Top design?

I still have that Flying Top set Windshield for sale, if any Montauk reader/owners are interested. See personal website for photos of it in use.

 
Joe Kriz
#10 Print Post
Posted on 11/26/14 - 5:15 PM
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Finnegan,

Mills absolutely makes the newer style tops.
You can view both styles on their website.

After having the newer style, I could never go back with the tops inside the boat resting on the bow locker taking up all that room.

1996, mid 1997 and 1998 to 2002
52-H869-00, SUNTOP W/BOOT GUNWALE MOUNT SS FRAME


Edited by Joe Kriz on 11/26/14 - 6:23 PM
 
GFC
#11 Print Post
Posted on 11/28/14 - 3:50 PM
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Quoting from Finnegan:
:GFC - Be careful when ordering your slide track. You want it to be long enough so that you can cut it to exact length needed for the finished installation. The snap strap on the slide fitting has to be snapped in place at the back end cap when the top is up, and at the front end cap when the top is stowed."

Would you please expand on that a little? If I'm understanding your correctly, the back (aft) end of the slide track should be located at the correct position where the main rail would fasten to it and be at the extreme back end of the slide track? What difference does it make if it's at the back end or the middle somewhere?

Here's a photo of what the side and bow look like. I intended to mount the rail in the flat area at the top of the gunnel and have the top laying down along that same flat around the bow. In the photo it's where the nav light is mounted. I also planned on installing a snap or two at the bow to fasten a short 1" nylon strap to hold the whole top down in place when it's stowed and we're running on plane.

Your thoughts on this plan?

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x313/gofirstclass/Little%20Beach/DSCN0569_zpsc0f21d23.jpg



 
Weatherly
#12 Print Post
Posted on 11/28/14 - 4:40 PM
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My 1995 Boston Whaler 17 Montauk came equipped with a Mills sun top that was mounted on slide tracks and lowered forward (or "outside") of the bow rail.

The Mills sun top I bought in May 2014 came equipped with slide tracks and lowered forward of the bow rail. Mills included very precise installation instructions for mounting the hardware. The slide tracks were included and you do not have to "cut them to exact length."

Here is a link to the Mills installation instructions for a 130 SS: http://www.millscanvas.com/cfm/docume...nstall.pdf


Edited by Weatherly on 11/28/14 - 5:02 PM
 
Finnegan
#13 Print Post
Posted on 11/28/14 - 6:48 PM
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I am not familiar with the track instructions for a later model 130 Sport, I can tell you for the FlLying Tops on both my 1986 Outrage 18 and my 1989 Outrage 25, exact track lenghts were suppled by Mills.

The absolutley critical location for the aft end of the track is where the slilding leg must be for proper deployment of the top. On mine, the slide has a snap web that snaps onto the aft track end cap, to keep the leg from sliding forward. This MUST be snapped or the top will collapse, with the leg slilding forward. Does that make sense?

The front dimension is the length where the sliding leg must be for storage of the booted top. Here it also has a web strap that snaps into the forward track end cap. This keeps the booted top from working backward while underway or in rough conditions. Does that make sense? Now I suppose the track could be a little longer, which means the slide cannot be locked in place, and in lieu of that, a bunge cord could hold the top both forward and hold it down. But why have unneeded forward track length screwed onto the top of your gunewales? the top can only go so far forward or it would fall off the bow. My point was that the tracks suppied by Mills in my case were exact, for purposes as described. My other point was to be sure your track is at least long enough to allow the top to slide as far forward as you need.

 
GFC
#14 Print Post
Posted on 11/29/14 - 11:04 AM
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I appreciate the feedback. I'm going to order the top on Monday so I'm glad I'm getting my questions answered.

"The absolutley critical location for the aft end of the track is where the slilding leg must be for proper deployment of the top. On mine, the slide has a snap web that snaps onto the aft track end cap, to keep the leg from sliding forward. This MUST be snapped or the top will collapse, with the leg slilding forward. Does that make sense?
I'm not sure I'm understanding what you mean by a Snap Web. Is that just a strap that holds the bottom end of the sliding leg at the aft end of the track? Could that be done with a 1"wide nylon strap that snaps back to itself and is just long enough to hold the leg from sliding?

The front dimension is the length where the sliding leg must be for storage of the booted top. Here it also has a web strap that snaps into the forward track end cap. This keeps the booted top from working backward while underway or in rough conditions. I planned on installing a 1" wide nylon strap up near the bow that would go around the folded top and snap back to itself to hold the folded top in place. Does that make sense? Now I suppose the track could be a little longer, which means the slide cannot be locked in place, and in lieu of that, a bunge cord could hold the top both forward and hold it down. But why have unneeded forward track length screwed onto the top of your gunewales? the top can only go so far forward or it would fall off the bow. My plan was to install the aft end of the slide so the leg would be in the correct position when the top was up. Then fold the top down, move it forward to where it would lie on bow and measure where the slide is in the track. I could then cut the track to the proper length and affix the front end of it. My point was that the tracks suppied by Mills in my case were exact, for purposes as described. My other point was to be sure your track is at least long enough to allow the top to slide as far forward as you need.
No problem with having the track long enough for the folded top to lie on the bow. I looked at the pics on the Mills Canvas site and noted it doesn't look like they used slides at all. At least they're not easy to see in the photos they show.

http://www.millscanvas.com/cfm/pictures/images/Suntop%20002.jpg



 
Finnegan
#15 Print Post
Posted on 12/01/14 - 2:47 PM
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Mills, at least, has these short black webbing straps permanently attaced to both the front and back of the slide, each with a female snap cap. This snaps on to the snap/screw that holds the track end cap in place to keep the slide from sliding.

Whether or not a Sun Top needs a slide depends mostly on the length of the boat. The longer the boat in relationship to the height of the top, the longer the slide needs to be to stow the top formard. Many boats, including Whaler's earlier 1970's vintage Outrages, did not use a slide at all, as the boats had front decks eliminating the need for a slide.

None of the Forward Shelters are on slides.

 
saumon
#16 Print Post
Posted on 12/01/14 - 3:06 PM
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Here's a Mills Sun Top mounted on my 1991 Outrage 17 I, with the slide tracks (you could see the small straps with snaps Finnegan's talking about on this pic): http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae...094303.jpg
(Note that they were on 1.5" risers, to give some more clearance. I'm 6'1" and can easily drive standing up with the top).

Rear position when in use and forward when folded, stored in the bow. When folded, in addition to the snaps, it's held down by two 6" rubber bungees, wrapped around the top and clipped to the posts of the bow rail.


1991 Outrage 17' I - 2005 E-Tec 90hp
 
Joe Kriz
#17 Print Post
Posted on 12/01/14 - 3:20 PM
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Mills does sell the parts as we show in our "OEM Part Info and Photos"
section.
http://www.whalercentral.com/photogal...hoto_id=81

 
GFC
#18 Print Post
Posted on 12/01/14 - 9:48 PM
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I called Mills this morning with some questions and here's what I found out.....

They do not use a slide with the model they make for my boat. The main leg fastens to the shirt bowrail section that is actually inside the boat. (I do not have the extended bow rail that goes all around the boat) The straps that hold the top in place fasten to the bowrail sections.

When I asked her about where the top lies when it's folded down, she just said that it lays up near the front. She wasn't very specific about whether or not the folded top would reach all the way to the bow or if it laid on the flat area immediately behind the bow.

At that point I wasn't too impressed with the information I was getting. Then I asked her the price and was quoted a price of about $971. I don't recall the exact price but was surprised by that amount.

Then I called another company that was highly recommended to me...CoversDirect. I had emailed them a couple of weeks ago and asked for some fabric samples. I got an email reply the next day and the samples arrived in just a couple of days. In the email they thanked me for contacting them and offered an additional discount for doing that (the discount was above and beyond what was offered as a Black Friday sale on their website.)

I had found their website was very complete, offering easy drop down menus to find the specific model top I needed.

The lady I spoke with (Shannon) was the same one who had sent me the email and the samples. She was familiar with their products and answered my questions about the top and the use of slides.

To make a long story short, I ordered the top from them along with a slide that is long enough to make sure it will fit, and I can cut it to the proper length.

In the end, I'm getting the top delivered to me for about $380. No, it doesn't have the stainless frame. I'm not sure I need that because I boat on fresh water and live in a desert where humidity is not a problem.

To me, a big reason for going with CoversDirect was the ~$600 difference in price. My Whaler(s) are not my only boat. I have this one....

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x3...302091.jpg

and that $600 will put a lot of diesel in her tanks.

Thanks for all the advice and information. I appreciate all the help you gave me.


Edited by GFC on 12/01/14 - 9:53 PM
 
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