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27 whaler full cabin
demco99
#21 Print Post
Posted on 12/19/14 - 7:27 PM
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Here are a few pictures from the haul out today, I will post the rest once the surveyor sends me his report..

https://flic.kr/p/qqJRXG

https://flic.kr/p/pwg4Hv

https://flic.kr/p/qbsfZd

https://flic.kr/p/pw2AQu

https://flic.kr/p/qbAUT2

https://flic.kr/p/qt22K2


Edited by Phil T on 12/21/14 - 8:43 AM
 
Silentpardner
#22 Print Post
Posted on 12/20/14 - 12:49 PM
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That is a really good looking boat! I didn't see any pictures of the wiring other than of the area at the battery charger, but that certainly looks well done to me. I personally prefer the battery switches and the ACR's to be located closer to the batteries. There were no pictures of the battery area, or any from the stern openings at all, and you will need to examine all this carefully. Remember, if you are going to have problems with this boat, it will probably be with the things that are not easily seen. Someone has obviously taken great pains to make this boat look good for the sale, but the wiring behind that console and the plumbing and waste, fresh and hotwater tanks are not pictured yet. You absolutely must operate all the systems, and taste the water from the freshwater system while the boat is sitting in saltwater. There is a raw water system and a fresh water system, and it is possible to cross contaminate between them if they are not plumbed correctly. Just because something appears to be working does not mean that it actually is working.

The fuel lines and tanks are also not pictured yet. You need to examine that stern bilge and be wary of any fuel/oil smells you may encounter there. Don't be afraid to look at all the under-deck access points on that boat before you buy it. You could have many costs and regrets if you don't.

I agree with jvz on the relocation of those oil tanks, that certainly would not work for me, I have to back down on fish a lot in my type of fishing, and I do get that area of the Whaler Drive flooded with sea water at times.

I noticed from the pictures of the haul out that the bottom paint is nice, but it does not appear to cover all of the hull that will be sitting in the water at the dock. If you intend to keep that hull in the water year round, you will have to insure that all the hull that is in the water at the dock is covered.

I apologize for not responding to your email yet, I have been extremely busy and out of the country for a couple of weeks, it is very difficult for me in some of the areas I travel to use the internet.

I also note that the kicker bracket that is currently on that boat is rusting and staining the Whaler Drive. I would certainly replace or refurbish that immediately, if I were going to use a kicker at all on this boat.


Edited by Silentpardner on 12/20/14 - 12:51 PM
 
Silentpardner
#23 Print Post
Posted on 12/20/14 - 8:46 PM
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I just read your post over at the other site. The information you are getting over there is not accurate.

The original location of oil tanks for the engines was definitely intended to be in the stern bilge behind the access doors under the baitwells. This is the same general area that the original batteries were also installed. This is the best location for 2-cycle oil supply tanks on this model of boat, as it is close to the engines and within an enclosed bilge area on this model.
Anyone that thinks the oil tanks should, or were ever intended to be located under the helm seating and oil lines run all the way back to the engines from that location must not have any real life experience with these boats, as this would require over 15' of wet oil hose at all times. If I owned one of these boats rigged the way that poster says his is, "from the factory", I would definitely have moved these oil tanks to the proper location very quickly.
I have my doubts that some folks claiming to own, (or have owned), these boats currently have, or do, actually own one. These poser - owners cannot ever produce actual pictures of their boat. I see this a lot more than I would like all over the net, and even here on this site sometimes I am skeptical. Beware. I am especially suspect of true ownership when I see a site owner immediately jump in with "pictures are not necessary" when you request them specifically. It appears that others might be aware of the scam being perpetrated on their own forum by posting members.

When these boats were sold originally, they were fitted with engines by the dealer, not Boston Whaler. Each dealer was left with the responsibility and sole discretion of installing the components related to the engines as well. This included the oil tanks. Not all dealers followed Boston Whaler recommendations. If the oil tanks for the 2-cycle engines were actually located under the helm seating in any of these boats originally, it was due to customer request and/or dealer preference, and certainly not Boston Whaler recommendation.
I looked at a LOT of these Whaler 27 FC's before I purchased the one I own now. I have NEVER seen one equipped with 2-cycle engines that had the engine oil supply tanks installed under either of the 2 helm seat compartments. This location is not practical.


Edited by Silentpardner on 12/20/14 - 9:42 PM
 
jvz
#24 Print Post
Posted on 12/22/14 - 8:27 AM
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You are correct Jerry...as I mentioned the 27' we used to run around on, and every 27' I have seen since...had the oil tanks in the aft stern bilge (starboard) along with the batteries (port).

Oil tank(s) location was the first thing that jumped out when I looked the pics.

Anyone who knows,.. backing down on a fish..or for whatever reason in any kind of seas, you swamp the swim step and or splash well.

New website - Posercentral.com

 
Silentpardner
#25 Print Post
Posted on 12/23/14 - 5:24 PM
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Merry Christmas jvz, and I sincerely hope you and yours have a prosperous new year!

Right on target, as I always notice :)

 
demco99
#26 Print Post
Posted on 12/28/14 - 8:35 PM
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Hi guys - Your thoughts are much appreciated. I have put a deposit down on this boat for him to hold it for me until I can get the engines inspected and we can hopefully agree on a price in the new year..

Any other suggestions on upgrades that would be worth my while on this boat other than moving the oil tanks? I have read that replacing the thru-hull fittings with nice stainless pieces is recommended (due to "weeping" - what is this?) and would like to know what else I will need to do.. I'm also planning on installing a 9.9 or 15hp kicker for salmon trolling and will need to decide how to mount it, what type of steering setup etc but will probably start a new thread..

Thanks guys.

 
demco99
#27 Print Post
Posted on 01/08/15 - 4:50 PM
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Hey guys,

I have now completed the survey and engine inspection on this boat. I would greatly appreciate anyone's opinion. Give me your email and I will send them to you..

Thanks - Nick

 
68 Eastport
#28 Print Post
Posted on 01/08/15 - 5:21 PM
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She's a beauty!

 
Silentpardner
#29 Print Post
Posted on 01/10/15 - 3:32 PM
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In the interest of the Whaler community, I will post my opinions of this particular boat here after reading the engine and general boat surveys that were provided to me by Nick. I think it is important that this thread remain open and not simply devolve into email correspondence, especially since Nick wants knowledgeable folks to help him. I do not consider myself the end-all authority on these boats, I just happen to have a lot of recent experience looking at them over the last few years. I sent the following reply to nick today.

Hi Nick!

Well, the engine survey says…..!

Interesting that the engines would require repairs that would cost more than they are worth! There has obviously been a lot of improper maintenance on them, if the spark plug threads and thrust washers are damaged and installed incorrectly. There would be more problems, I suspect, very quickly discovered after these repairs were completed. The rigging for these motors is not installed correctly if there is not room for the oil tanks in the stern area of this boat. When I purchased my boat, it had a fourstroke 50 HP kicker and 2 Yamaha 200 HP main engines. There were 2 oil tanks, all of the battery switches and 2 ACR’s, a separate electronics accessory switch shutoff, and a total of 4 large batteries, as well as all the rigging for the engines, located in this area. Things might have been tight under there, but there was room for it all, and everything was accessable for emergency maintenance if needed.
I have not seen a single photo of interior of the stern bilge area where all this equipment is located on the boat you are looking at. Why is this? That is definitely one of the most important areas of concern in this boat, and I did my best to help you understand this in my correspondence with you. There are other areas of this boat that I tried to get you to examine, none of them were included in your photo updates. If you can’t go to the trouble of opening the access door behind the helm in the head and photographing what’s in that cabinet, or opening the cockpit and helm hatches and trapdoors, as well as the stern access hatches and taking pictures there before you go into negotiations and then buy this tub, you will get what you get, and no one can really help you with value and projections of reliability with this vessel. There is an autopilot, but it is not functioning? Understand that a new autopilot system is not cheap, All of this would have to be completely redone. The fact that this system is not working now would indicate that there is a high probability that some, or all, of the main components would also have to be replaced with the correct installation. The autopilot system that exists is worthless, and would represent an immediate expenditure of at least $1000 to replace, even if you did this yourself, which I would not recommend to anyone that needed a survey of a boat to recognize this problem.

The survey of the engines and engine rigging, as well as the autopilot, on this boat indicate that they are completely worthless. Get a signed commitment to buy these engines from the dealer that surveyed them if you do not understand this, or if the dealer tells you otherwise.


And the general boat survey says….!

On the basis of this survey, I would definitely not pay more than $5000 for this vessel, even though the surveyor has placed a value on this vessel of 35.000.! It appears that the surveyor in this case is either seller-biased, or simply has no knowledge about repair costs to classic Whalers. It also shows what I have been trying to communicate about these boats, that in fact, if you wish to buy one, the seller can make one look very good, and still have a lot of expensive problems that you cannot determine without very careful examination of the boat.
The one immediate thing that jumps out at me is the surveyor claiming the boat has no raw water system…it certainly did originally! The raw water system supplies the bait wells integral to the transom stern, as well as supplying a hose fitting to attach a cockpit washdown hose! If there is no raw water system in the boat, it has been removed completely, it certainly had one when it was built. Without raw water, the bait wells will not work. If you need live bait on your boat, prepare to shell out cash.
I recommended to you in past correspondence on Whaler Central to actually taste the water produced in the freshwater system, with the boat sitting in saltwater, and determine that it was actually freshwater. I do not have any response from you on this detail, so I don’t know whether the raw water system is actually being used to supply the freshwater system or the freshwater system is being used to supply the baitwells. One or the other must be a fact if there are no “raw water” pumps in this boat, and the baitwells fill up. The corroded condition of the hot water tank that is discussed in the survey could very well be an indication that the systems have been cross-contaminated or that raw water is being used instead of fresh. You should be VERY LEERY of the plumbing survey. These repairs could easily cost you another $2000-$5000 even if you did the work yourself, which, again, I would not recommend in your case.

Let’s take a look at the “Priority Items” listed by your surveyor. These items alone reduce the actual value of this boat tremendously.

*PRIORITY ITEM: Satisfactory resolution of this Finding is essential for the continued safe operation and/or use of the vessel.
1. There is a slight bend upwards in the port engine trim plane and the leading edge of its fin is slightly rough. This indicates previous contact with a floating object. Recommendation: Monitor bend for worsening. Sand fin smooth and coat to protect.
2. There are a very few (approx. 30) blisters on the hull underbody amidships between the outer gelcoat and the underlying FRP laminate, the largest of which is approximately ½” in diameter. Recommendation: Monitor for worsening and repair for cosmetic reasons if desired. Note: Without opening a representative number of blisters on each side of the hull laminate, it is not possible to ascertain the effect these blisters have on the structural integrity of the hull. No blisters were opened during this inspection.
3. A plastic or FRP scoop is broken off over a small thru hull to port aft on the underbody. Recommendation: Attach a replacement scoop if desired.
4. There is a separations between the outer FRP laminate and the underlying wood core on the inner face of the transom to port between the outboard and next inboard thru-transom swim step/outboard motor bracket fasteners in an area approximately 8” x 8”. Recommendation: Check condition of underlying core. If coring is dry, inject with epoxy resin to rebond. If coring is wet but not soft, thoroughly dry and inject with epoxy resin to rebond. If coring is soft and/or decayed, remove soft, decayed coring, treat surrounding coring with fungicidal compound and rebuild as per original. Following all of the above repairs, sand to contour and color coat to match.
5. The fuel tank fill hose is age deteriorated. Recommendation: Replace with properly sized and rated Type A2 fuel hose in accordance with American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) standards.
6. The autopilot and trim tabs are inoperative. Recommendation: Repair or replace as necessary for proper operation. 7. There is a hydraulic leak at one line connection to starboard on the helm pump. Recommendation: Repair as required to eliminate hydraulic fluid leaks. Bleed system and monitor for reoccurrence.
8. The main cabin bilge pump leaks so badly it will not pump water overboard. Recommendation: Replace pump and test for proper operation.
9. The visible portions of the potable hot water tank are slightly corroded. Recommendation: Monitor tank and replace if leaking is detected.

Have you actually gotten estimates on the cost of these repairs? I would highly recommend that you do! Keep in mind that the surveyor is stating that “Satisfactory resolution of this Finding is essential for the continued safe operation and/or use of the vessel.” For each of the 9 items listed!

I have seen Whaler 27 FC’s, with many more original features intact and working, like generators and stoves in the galley, sell for between $8000 and $12500 over the past 5 years. None of these boats, that I looked at, had broken and or rotten transoms or blistering hulls. I would not offer to pay what is being asked for this boat. I would not offer any sum even APPROACHING what is being asked for this boat. There are way too many unknowns with this one, and the surveyor has completely missed at least one entire system in this survey. You have to wonder what else might have been “missed”. Like, for instance, the actual condition of all the wiring behind that door under the helm that is accessed from the head!

I might be interested in this particular boat, if I didn’t already have one that has ALL THE ORIGINAL SYSTEMS working on it currently, in the price range of $5000 to a very max of $10000, with all the information now available to me.I would not even bother to examine it further if the sale price was not reduced to $10000. If I was going to spend almost $40000 on a boat, I would keep looking. This is just my opinion.

Jerry Mooney, aka Silentpardner

 
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