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Looking to replace/remove my transom mounted ball scupper
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| VA Whaler |
Posted on 06/12/14 - 12:01 PM
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I hope to seal up my 1979 22' Revenge next weekend and I need to either replace or permanently remove the funky below the waterline ball scupper that was mounted at the base of the transom. I assume it was original equipment. There is also one of these things in the engine well that prevents water from backing into the livewell/fishtank. Any reccomendations? Should I just leave it off and maybe install a couple of above the waterline scuppers to drain the deck?
Thanks
John
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| Phil T |
Posted on 06/12/14 - 2:07 PM
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Ball scuppers were not original to the boat and were added by someone.
If they are not working properly, there are replacements available.
http://www.thmarine.com/products/Aera...ll-Scupper
Personally, I used drain plugs from the inside for thru hull drains.
I hope you have replaced the drain tubes as a part of your restoration.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 06/12/14 - 6:41 PM
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VA, I just removed mine to reinforce my transom for the jack plate. Yours as a gift but useless for my needs. Dang thing is 12" below water line. Probably drains the transom on plane but water came in when trolling. I say plug the tube or remove tube and fill in completely. I have a bilge set up there. Contact me on email address and I will send it out.
Garris
Edit: The back of the boat drains over the transom once you fire up the boat with some speed. Actually a pretty cool feature. That is why I am installing a removable splash board. Our boats are "self draining". My bilge could not keep up with the water coming over the transom. Did not bother me but bothered guests. Happened during drift fishing and reverse was a total nightmare.
Edited by gchuba on 06/12/14 - 6:54 PM |
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| gchuba |
Posted on 06/13/14 - 7:08 AM
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John,
One of the advantages of that lower tube is it drains the splash well when out of the water. I have an interest in the tube that goes between the splash well and the livewell/fish locker. Mine does not have one and I am interested at what height yours is at. I have been toying with installing one. My livewell/fish locker has a plug in the bottom and a drain access from the splash well to the locker would take care of gravity loss of water when dry docked. I have the live well deck off right now and have clean/easy access. It would also allow my transom's bilge pump to remove water from the locker. You really need a transom bilge to keep the deck dry.
Garris
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 06/13/14 - 9:11 AM
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There was a ball type scupper installed on our hull too when we bought it. Took it off for a few reasons, it didn't seem to work all that well so I didn't really trust it, there were 3 or 4 screws holding it on (potential water intrusion points), and it hid the drain tube from visible inspection, which was shown to need replacement once the scupper was off. A drain plug in the transom and a bilge pump in the locker seems to work fine.
The low cut transom is a pro/con. You can clear the deck easily as Garris describes, but if the transom was higher, it probably wouldn't get flooded in the first place and need to be cleared. I'd seen this video before but came across it again the other day. Not sure why anyone would intentionally do this like he does, but it illustrates the low cut transom issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm6Ku...m6KuBwykJY
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| VA Whaler |
Posted on 06/13/14 - 11:46 AM
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Thanks for all the extremely useful information.
Phil: The transom drain disentegrated (I found this out after I bought it) so I'm holding out hope it will dry a little more before I seal it up for the test drive. I might make a temporary drain that will do the job for my testing and then take it out again and let the drying process continue.
The other drains look OK but I am going to replace them if the water tests go OK
Garris: Appreciate the offer on the scuppers but after reading this thread I'm going to leave both off and seal up the screw holes.
Thanks for telling me about the behavior of the Revenge. I probably would have thought something was wrong when water started to pour over the low cut transom. The former owner did tell me that his one complaint with the boat was it would get your feet wet when fishing in a trailing sea.
My fish locker has two drains one leading to the engine splash well and one going straight down through the hull. So your fish locker does not have a drain from the fish locker to the engine splash well? I guess mine was installed post-factory and maybe that makes sense as the plug for this drain is smaller than the standard 1". The drain leading from the fish locker to the engine well is about 3/4" - 1" above the lowest points of both wells.
I also have a drain leading from the gas tank compartment to the fish locker. Judging by the amount of silicon around the drain, this looks like a post-factory installation. This drain is probably about 1.5" below the deck and is not really noticable unless you practically stick your head in the fish locker and look towards the bow. I did see water pouring from this drain when I had the boat on an incline. Does your boat have this drain?
Dave: Thanks for the info. Sounds like we had the same setup. When you changed out your transom drain tube did you have a problem with a damp transom?
I'm going to use your suggestion of the bilge pump in the fish locker. I might set up a valve to circulate that locker/splashwell water overboard or just have it recirculate from the top to keep the fish/bait lively.
Any idea if there is wood underneath that fish locker to screw a bilge pump to or would you reccomend installing a submerible pump to the fish locker / splash well wall or installing a remote pump?
Thanks again all.
John
Edited by VA Whaler on 06/13/14 - 11:57 AM |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 06/13/14 - 1:34 PM
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I would not launch the boat until the drains are repaired.
Some remove the tubes and seal with epoxy then install a new tube. Others just replace the tube.
McCarr Master has the pre-flared tubes and O-rings.
A search on this site will provide the how-to's.
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| gchuba |
Posted on 06/13/14 - 2:44 PM
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John,
The tube that you see upside down looking to the bow is factory original as well as the tube that goes from the fish locker to the rigging tunnel. That is where my fuel line goes from the aft portion of the gas tank to the motor. If water comes out with the bow lifted you have standing water in the fuel tank compartment. Where does your fuel hose go? The drain tube for the gas tank compartment connects to the rigging tunnel. If you reach into the rigging tunnel (I found mine after I removed the small deck piece next to the fish locker deck) see if you could feel drain tube. It may be clogged. I know it is the drain for the gas compartment because it is about 3" below the other two access tubes.
I removed my fish locker deck because when I got swamped with the transom water, wood debri in the water. I expected a compromised deck but that was not the case. Just leafs and crap stuck in the seem since the day the boat was built (1979). I ended up removing everything from the rigging tunnel and pressure washed the tunnel from the cuddy cabin to the transom area. Also took an old sheet with a pull wire and swabbed it (like cleaning a barrel of a gun). A lot of garbage collected in there (I expected to find a live snake and a dolls head it was so nasty).
My thinking now is two tubes from the fish locker to the splash well. One for drainage and one for for keeping the water level below my fuel hose.
Do you keep the rigging tunnel drain plug installed or out when you are in the water or underway? I was planning on installing a bilge pump there because it always seems to collect water.
Garris
Phil, How do I negotiate the site for the tube installation. Thanks. G
Edited by gchuba on 06/13/14 - 2:48 PM |
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 06/13/14 - 5:29 PM
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VA Whaler wrote:
Dave: Thanks for the info. Sounds like we had the same setup. When you changed out your transom drain tube did you have a problem with a damp transom?
I'm going to use your suggestion of the bilge pump in the fish locker. I might set up a valve to circulate that locker/splashwell water overboard or just have it recirculate from the top to keep the fish/bait lively.
Any idea if there is wood underneath that fish locker to screw a bilge pump to or would you reccomend installing a submerible pump to the fish locker / splash well wall or installing a remote pump?
Yes, the transom was wet. But the previous owner had a number of unfilled screw holes in the transom, and when the sun would heat it, they would weep. So the moisture wasn't all from the bad drain tube. I dried it out best I could with a hairdryer and let it sit. Sealed it up well with a new tube, the EDPM O-rings, and 5200. Here's the how to article:
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=42
There is wood in the fish locker, 2 pieces that are 8" square. Take a look at the wood locating diagram for the 22 in this link to see where it is:
http://www.whalercentral.com/download...owstart=15
Ever since my experience with the unfilled screw holes, I try to not drill into the fiberglass unless absolutely necessary. For the bottom of the fish locker, used a V shaped block of wood to fit the contour, coated in epoxy, and adhered with 4200, then screwed the pump into that. I used an 1100 GPH pump given the propensity to take water over the transom.
Edited by Derwd24 on 06/13/14 - 5:30 PM
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| Phil T |
Posted on 06/13/14 - 5:44 PM
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Replacing drain tubes is a question asked many times.
Under "Main" in the top menu, is a drop down list. Select "Site Search" and enter "How to replace drain tubes" and then select "result has to contain all those words". You will get over 53 hits.
The site search is your friend.
Edited by Phil T on 06/13/14 - 5:44 PM |
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 06/13/14 - 6:12 PM
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Phil, I think a lot of people look in the Articles section under Repair Articles for the drain tube instructions and don't find it there. It's actually in the Installation Instructions section instead. Maybe a duplicate link to the article could also be put in the Repair section?
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| VA Whaler |
Posted on 06/13/14 - 6:31 PM
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Garris, thanks for the additional information. I think I will remove the fish locker portion of the deck later this summer to see what sort of shape its in. The FO did say that one of the last things he did was remove the deck and the gas tank to clean it out. Hopefully the underside is in ok shape. I have not driven it yet but I would assume I'd leave the gas tank compartment drain unplugged.
Phil, not sure if I can hold out any longer to replace all the drains. That boat has about 26.  At the least I will coat the inside and edges of the tubes with 4200 and replace them all after my test drive. I don't want to spend any more time and money on this boat until I find out it doesn't list to one side or barely get on plane or the transom rips off.
Dave thanks for that information. Great to also have your insight on the 22 footer.
I really appreciate all the help I receive here. I don't feel like I'm doing this project on my own and I have a lot of help from folks who have "been there and done that".
Edited by VA Whaler on 06/13/14 - 6:40 PM |
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| gchuba |
Posted on 06/14/14 - 9:08 AM
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Dave,
I watched the video and I had that exact experience (not quite to that extreme but one of my buddies on the boat that day would differ when teasing) when a 12lb. downrigger ball snagged a crab trap. My motor also stalled. Why I am extending out the motor with a removable splash board. I like to keep the feature if I take a big one over the bow that might swamp a closed tall transom.
John,
Where does the motor intake fuel line go? It should be through those two tubes in the fish locker. If the PO rerouted it through the drain tube to the rigging tube and blocked the drain. You are holding 3" of extra water in the fuel tank chamber.
Garris
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| Derwd24 |
Posted on 06/14/14 - 11:04 AM
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Garris, I'd be interested in seeing your design for the splash board as I'd considered doing the same out of clear plexi. Mainly when the boat is on the mooring as larger swells cause the transom to dip low enough to take water over the top.
Dave - 1983 Outrage 22 |
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| gchuba |
Posted on 06/14/14 - 1:18 PM
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Dave,
My attempts have been creating more work but getting closer. Will keep you posted but it involves a 12 inch jack plate. I started a thread "Bow in Transom" and will keep all posted there. Do not want to high jack VA's topic.
Garris
Edited by gchuba on 06/14/14 - 1:19 PM |
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| VA Whaler |
Posted on 06/18/14 - 12:04 PM
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Garris, sorry for the delay in responding. The fuel line travels from the fuel/water separator down to the small hatchway that covers the deck's bilge pump. I have not traced its route from there to the onboard fuel tank but I will take a closer look this weekend. In my testing I'm using an external fuel tank with its own fuel line, primer bulb, etc.
I'm going to slightly hijack my own thread for a minute and ask you something about the thru hull drain tubes on your 22' Revenge. I have two that do not extend all the way through the hull and terminate with the standard flare. There is a flared end on the "topside" and they extend to just about the edge of the gelcoat and stop. They are then covered by the clamshell covers. The two drains include the fish/bait tank and the starboard main deck bilge. The other thru-hull drains have flared ends on both ends. Are your drains set up in a similar way or do all of your drains have flared ends?
Thanks!
John
Edited by VA Whaler on 06/18/14 - 12:07 PM |
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| gchuba |
Posted on 06/18/14 - 7:45 PM
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John,
In regards to your fuel line. The PO must have ran the fuel hose through the drain for the fuel tank chamber. Best route for the fuel hose is through the fish locker and then to the rigging chamber. The reason for the water going into the fish locker when you jack up the boat is they "high jacked" the drain tube for the fuel hose (it sits three inches lower than the fish locker tube) and probably sealed it in place. Change the fuel hose to where it should go and, completely cleanse out the other tube, and it will lighten your boat.
I have all the drains that you talked about. They all go through hull. They all have the clam shell over them to allow for drainage when underway. There should not be blockage in any of them.
Garris
all my drain tubes are uncovered on the deck side. Let me know what happens with the drain tube in the rigging chamber. Right where all the cables come up, Fore of the transom. My rigging chamber always takes in a lot of water (rain and sea) and I am installing a bilge there. Wondering if I should leave the plug out.
Edited by gchuba on 06/18/14 - 7:53 PM |
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