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Wet Foam - what to do?
kamie	#41  Posted on 07/11/13 - 4:06 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	Good point on the wood, i had not thought of that. I could use foam? I could basically make 2x4 blocks of foam, cut them to size and use them if i need to hold the deck up. I am looking for fresh ideas i haven't thought of, confirmation of my ideas as well as someone to shoot holes in my ideas so i get better ideas
mtown	#42  Posted on 07/11/13 - 5:15 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 610 Comments: 5 Joined: 07/06/08	Yes foam blocks, make sure it's closed cell of course. Dow should be fine. Did you see the jig for the 15' Whaler on here months ago. Someone posted a link to it for sale for $2000. It had lots of pictures and was made of steel for the pressure of the foam expansion. If you can find it, it might help you visualize what to do. That is kind of what made me think of the cardboard form idea. When a copycat 'splashes' a hull shape they must have a method for recreating the lines of an existing hull and deck. I think the foam removal is not that tough but as you realize putting the same shape back in place will be the hard part.
ritzyrags	#43  Posted on 07/11/13 - 5:45 PM
Member Project Albums Posts: 1003 Comments: 36 Joined: 06/18/08	The point of carefully cutting the bottom deck out was to save the part. Dont lie Dont Cheat And dont give up..
kamie	#44  Posted on 07/12/13 - 7:12 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	I get that part but why cut out more than i have too?
Binkie	#45  Posted on 07/12/13 - 7:13 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 2012 Comments: 0 Joined: 12/19/05	Where is the bottom deck found on a 13 ft. Whaler? Rich
ritzyrags	#46  Posted on 07/12/13 - 10:45 PM
Member Project Albums Posts: 1003 Comments: 36 Joined: 06/18/08	Quote; I get that part but why cut out more than i have too? 1-Structural integrity of the finished repairs. 2-The idea is to remove foam only if you must 3-By removing the floor or deck you will have a better exposure of all foam and may be able to skip replacement and let thoroughly dry. 4-You can beef up the whole deck structure before re fiberglassing it to the gunwale cut outs. Dont lie Dont Cheat And dont give up..
ritzyrags	#47  Posted on 07/12/13 - 10:48 PM
Member Project Albums Posts: 1003 Comments: 36 Joined: 06/18/08	Bink, Quote; Where is the bottom deck found? The lowest point of the inner structure. Dont lie Dont Cheat And dont give up..
kamie	#48  Posted on 07/14/13 - 6:00 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	I don't believe that by pulling off the deck, the foam will dry. The top 2 inches or so might dry but it will still be wet below that. Pulling off the deck would make the foam easier to remove, although i believe it would be harder to actually repour the foam and get it to the correct shape without bowing the deck. I would imagine that i would end up pouring the foam, shaping it and then replacing the deck. Because the boat sits outside in the moist air off the water, I really need to remove the foam, weigh the boat and hopefully refoam all in a single weekend. To get the boat down close to it's 250# i need a target weight of 225# before refoaming assuming my average depth guess is correct for the volume of the foam. I will need to reconfirm once i get back to the boat. I did come across this note on the US Composites web page when talking about the 2# foam. "This foam is approximately 95-98% closed cell which resists absorbing water, however continuous water submersion can eventually lead to loss of buoyancy over a period of years. "
ritzyrags	#49  Posted on 07/14/13 - 1:06 PM
Member Project Albums Posts: 1003 Comments: 36 Joined: 06/18/08	In this case I suggest that you make a study of how Metan did this repair and copy as best you can. Dont lie Dont Cheat And dont give up..
kamie	#50  Posted on 08/03/13 - 3:15 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	I worked some more on the project this weekend. I tried cutting the foam with an electric knife but that was less than successful. Not sure if it was the angle of the cut up under the deck or what. I also cut out the center section to attempt to remove it as a single piece, but the glass/gelcoat is way too thin to hold it's shape once pulled away from the foam. based on that, my plan is to sacrifice the deck in favor of gaining access to remove all the wet foam. Hopefully i will have the deck off and will start removing the wet foam tomorrow. If that is the case, i'll post more photo's on my project album.
ritzyrags	#51  Posted on 08/03/13 - 6:08 PM
Member Project Albums Posts: 1003 Comments: 36 Joined: 06/18/08	I will look forward to seeing your project pictures. Dont lie Dont Cheat And dont give up..
kamie	#52  Posted on 08/04/13 - 8:55 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	Successfully removed the center of the deck, in one piece. Nice warm sun aided the removal. Hopefully with the deck removed, i can remove the foam and the water. I will start removing the foam this afternoon but suspect the progress will really happen next time i have a chance to work on the boat. Added a photo with the deck up and the foam exposed
kamie	#53  Posted on 08/04/13 - 4:55 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	I made progress this after noon. Mostly testing tools and the clear winner for removing lots of foam is a Dremel Multimax with a large scraping blade. The blade actually slices the foam and it can be removed in large pieces. I have all the removed wet foam in a couple trash bags, i might weight them next time I am working on the boat. Once the exposed foam is out, i will switch back to the wire brush to grind out the foam under the remaining deck, as far as i can. The foam is wet on the bow side of my wet / dry line so once the foam in the stern is removed and the boat weighted, i will decide if i am going to remove the foam in the front half of the boat. It will depend on how wet the boat still is, I have no trouble lifting the bow so i may leave whatever damp foam is there. Photo of the foam removal progress posted.
kamie	#54  Posted on 08/16/13 - 1:05 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	I made more progress today. I did manage to lift the boat onto it's port side, so clearly it is shedding weight as I could not do that solo before. Having it on the port side, makes it easier to grind out the foam under the remaining deck section. The foam is wet all the way to the gunnals. couple new photo's in the project album, may post more this weekend, depending on how far along I get.
LabCab	#55  Posted on 08/17/13 - 12:07 AM
Member Personal Page Posts: 100 Comments: 7 Joined: 01/17/09	http://www.whalercentral.com/images/photoalbum_3/useralbum_37/img_0026_1_wc_t2.jpg The white gel coat looks terrific. I tried to quote the picture of your naked boat floating. How is it floating too low? It is standing above the area usually coated with bottom paint. I would probably just move the console forward a few inches and enjoy it. http://www.whalercentral.com/images/p..._wc_t2.jpg
kamie	#56  Posted on 08/17/13 - 10:31 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	Thanks, once I am done with the inside, i will need to redo the outside gelcoat. There were a lot of places i didn't pay enough attention to the prep work, even though I know better. I also had one layer that cured but not real hard, i figured i messed up the catalyst on that one. Once i dig out the wet foam and replace the interior, i will flip it to sand and reapply another coating of gelcoat. I am glad i dug out the foam or at least am in the process of doing so. It is not a project for the faint of heart, it's a lot of work. There is something to be said for doing it at least once when you advise folks to "close it up and go boating"
sjp2	#57  Posted on 08/17/13 - 1:26 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 22 Comments: 0 Joined: 07/17/13	i have put some pics on my page of the moisture meter i borrowed ,i realise that you are well progressed in your digging ,but i think it might save some work if you can get hold of one of these ,in saying that the meter might be too sensitive ,some areas of foam i have dug out are dry to touch and even though some areas along the keel are showing high readings when i push a hacksaw blade into the foam it has no moisture on it .but i have also found old repairs that have soft resin in them because they have probaly been glassed over wet foam,soft center so to speak.
kamie	#58  Posted on 08/17/13 - 4:26 PM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	No moisture meter required. The hull weight was 400# or 150# of water that shouldn't be there. I have the port side fairly free of foam, although i want to try and work my way back to the stern corner. It may not be possible where the shear brace is and the remaining deck piece doesn't give enough room for the drill. Interesting note, the shear brace is actually foam filled and not solid glass and resin. The bow is light, my neighbor lifted it so i could work the boat back on the trailer. Now to get the stern lighter, then close it up and go boating
mtown	#59  Posted on 08/17/13 - 5:02 PM
Member Personal Page Posts: 610 Comments: 5 Joined: 07/06/08	Wow at 62 lbs/cbft that is almost 3 cbft of water. I would guess that it is almost total saturation for that small of a hull. Can you squeeze the foam and have it drip water?
kamie	#60  Posted on 08/18/13 - 6:10 AM
Member Personal Page Project Albums Posts: 2975 Comments: 3 Joined: 11/04/05	Probably if I could get in the back under the deck and cut out a section of foam. Currently I am just pulverizing it and pulling it out with a shopvac. When i first got the boat, you could push on the deck and water would squirt out the screw holes. I don't believe the boat is saturated, for that you would need a lot more water and it would have to be wet bow to stern. Not saying the foam is totally dry forward of the midsection of the boat, just not dripping wet.