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1986 Outrage 18 Repower
Silentpardner
#1 Print Post
Posted on 04/09/13 - 1:44 PM
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I have decided to repower the boat on my personal page after looking at the old 140 Johnson off the boat yesterday. I am completely refitting the boat, and it seems dumb to spend all the cash required to do that without modernizing the power and adding a kicker.

I was considering the E-Tech 150 until I discussed this with my boat guy as all the latest repowers I have seen here at WC have been these motors. The boat Guru has recommended a Yamaha 4-stroke. Whatever I go with, I will also be matching a 9.9 Kicker. I see that weight could become an issue, but I have had extremely good luck with the Yamaha engines on boats in my past and I am now leaning towards this option myself.

I would welcome any input in this matter for consideration...I see several Yamaha powered Outrage 18's in the personal pages here but I have not seen anyone going with them on recent repowers. Why?

Thanks in advance for all input.

 
Joe Kriz
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 1:53 PM
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Probably just because of weight along with adding a kicker.

The Yamaha 150 is almost 60 pounds more then the E-Tec 150.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=6

I have been considering the E-Tec 130 along with a kicker.

 
dreilly
#3 Print Post
Posted on 04/09/13 - 1:59 PM
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I repowered with a Yamaha V-Max 150 fairly recently. I had to add a 5" spacer to the shaft since it only come in a 20" but the spacer was from Yamaha and didn't change the warranty. I love it. Great power and lighter than a 4 stroke.

 
Marko888
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 3:04 PM
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Few are choosing the Yamaha 150 due to weight, despite most agreeing it is an excellent engine.

Many choose the Yamaha F115 and love them. The F115 and 8hp kicker combination is pretty close to the same weight of the F150 alone.

It's tough to beat the perfomance per pound provided by the E-Tec's.

There are a few other lightweight choices, such as the Suzuki DF140. There are also rumours of an updated Yamaha 150 being in the works, but no word yet on when it will be available.


Edited by Marko888 on 04/09/13 - 3:05 PM
 
Silentpardner
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 4:03 PM
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As I continue the research here I see that if I go Yamaha, I really will need to stay with a 115 + kicker. I will have 408 lbs of 115 HP with 108 lbs of 9.9 kicker for a total of 516 lbs hanging off the back of the boat. Does anyone here have experience with performance of only 115 HP on a classic Outrage 18? It seems like it is underpowering...or maybe I am just overwhelmed?

The Evinrude site says they have discontinued the 130 E-Tech and moved to a gaudy looking 135 HP, it also appears to have gained a bit of weightSad The site is confusing me some I admit, but I am unable to find any matching kicker under 15 hp.

The quest continues...

 
wannabe
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 4:18 PM
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I recall reading about 115 Yamaha threads. You might want to do a site search to see what pops up. I believe I remember reading that the power was good enough especially if running in the ocean where top end is seldom obtainable. My 25 year old 130hp Yamaha two stroke will do 44 mph (gps) if this helps any.


Drew
1988 Outrage 18 - 1988 Yamaha 130 hp
 
Joe Kriz
#7 Print Post
Posted on 04/09/13 - 4:22 PM
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The Evinrude site still shows the 130hp but yes, it appears to be no longer in production.
http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/engines...es/etec_v4

The Evinrude kickers 15hp and under are made by Tohatsu and are 4 stroke.
http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/engines...le_engines

Evinrude does make a E-Tec 2 stroke 15 HO but no longer appears it is available in the US.
http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/engines...le_engines

Also see this list of kicker motors.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=7


Edited by Joe Kriz on 04/09/13 - 4:30 PM
 
mtown
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 4:23 PM
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I have a 115 Yamaha 4 stroke on my 1985 18' and it is fine. I wish it was lighter as the transom sits lower than with the 115 yam 2 stroke but it has never been a problem. I wonder why so many have kickers with the dependability of outboards now. I used to have one on a 20' Mako and the one time it was needed it did not start. As soon as the main tank was fueled and the kicker was not needed it started first pull.
If I were truely worried about getting home now it would be with a 4-5 hp that would be stored in a safe place on board and with a seperate fuel supply. I am only using the 18 in the Chesapeake Bay and not offshore like the Mako.

 
wannabe
#9 Print Post
Posted on 04/09/13 - 4:25 PM
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Joe Kriz wrote:
The Evinrude site still shows the 130hp.
http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/engines...es/etec_v4


I believe that the 130hp is on the way out. You better hurry!


Drew
1988 Outrage 18 - 1988 Yamaha 130 hp
 
Silentpardner
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 4:29 PM
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My use for the kicker would be primarily for slow lake trolling, getting home would be a secondary advantage for me.

 
Finnegan
#11 Print Post
Posted on 04/09/13 - 4:36 PM
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You should consider Mercury. (disclaimer - Mercury is the only outboard I have ever owned - now have 8 of them)

The 125 Optimax only weighs 380# in 25" shaft. This should provide about 42 MPH top end. They cost about 8K

The new Mercury large cube 150 EFi 4-stroke is 20# lighter than any Japanese brand, at 455#. Supposedly, it is more powerful also. They cost about 10K

And they have one of the finest matching 9.9HP kickers you can buy.

For 27 years I have run 610# of twin Merc 2-strokes on my 1986 Outrage 18, set back 10" and with batteries in the splash well, and the boat can easily handle the weight.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lgolt...4646557636

So any 150 with a kicker should be acceptable. But if you want to stay light, and for the least amouint of money, that 3-star 125 Optimax is a bargain worth considering.

Evinrude had to drop the 130 V-4 E-tec (and similar 115HO) because of 3-star rating problems and mechanical difficulties relating to some exhaust valve which supposedly provided the extra HP over the conventional 115. Guess it didn't work ouit so well, even after the long time it took to bring to market.


Edited by Finnegan on 04/09/13 - 4:37 PM
 
aeriksen
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 4:48 PM
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I hear so many people wanting to go the 4 strokes and I scratch my head. The new 2 strokes Merc and Evinrude offer everthing as the 4 strokes plus better torque and the same gas performance as the 4 strokes over all. The Evinrude has no maintance for the first 300 hrs. or three years. No oil changes ever. Way less moving parts, less weight and 5 yr warranty. Look at the two strokes. I got my 130 hp Evinrude for 10600.00. I don't know what the 4 strokes go for. I can recommend dealer on the west coast that I got my pricing at.

 
Marko888
#13 Print Post
Posted on 04/09/13 - 4:55 PM
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Plenty of options to choose from for sure, and a bunch of considerations to ponder. As you can see, many of us don't want 500# on our transoms, and some are happy with 610#.

The Outrage was designed for a 375#, 150hp two stroke, or pair of 230# 70's. My take, and many others too, us this boat handles best with less than 500# on the transom. But it is a foam filled Whaler, and will float more if you want more.

Re powering is a big investment, so would recommend spending a few evenings reading all the threads about re powering an Outrage 18. This will empower you to make a reasonably well informed decision.



 
Derwd24
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 5:22 PM
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X2 on the last 2 posts, well said... Research as much as you can before deciding.


Dave - 1983 Outrage 22
 
Joe Kriz
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 5:42 PM
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Finnegan wrote:
You should consider Mercury. (disclaimer - Mercury is the only outboard I have ever owned - now have 8 of them)

The 125 Optimax only weighs 380# in 25" shaft. This should provide about 42 MPH top end. They cost about 8K

I haven't included the 125 Optimax in the list because it is not CARB3 rated.

We can't run those motors on many waters in California and other states may change their regulations in the future.

My suggestion for buying any new motor, is to make sure it is the cleanest motor available which is CARB3 rated at this time.

Yamaha 115 and a Yamaha F9.9 kicker
408 plus 89 = 493 pounds

E-Tec 115 and a 9.8 kicker
390 plus 82 = 472 pounds

Mercury and Suzuki, I think you can figure the rest out according to the list depending on which ones you choose.

 
Silentpardner
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 6:56 PM
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Joe, I am going to use a tilt/trim electric /pull start version of the Yamaha 9.9 that is the reason it weighs a bit more than the 88 lbs in my calculations.

I can't thank the person who suggested I search the site for Yamaha 115 Outrage 18 performance. Found a gold mine of info! Followed a link from PhilT here to another site where the whole EXACT scenario I am considering is discussed to death! Spent over an hour just reading! I even got a prop to spec from Tom Clark for my exact application if I go with the Yamaha 115. I didn't have to ask! Apparently he's already been there and done thatSmile

Finnegan, I really would like to stay with a US manufacturer such as Mercury, but...well...I had a Mercury one time back in 1990's...I am sure they are much more reliable now...let's just say me and a Mercury in my past could absolutely NOT get along. I was towed 2 times with only 56 hrs on the one I had, the last time was from 6 miles offshore into Freeport. I got a great trade in value for that one the next day...exactly 62% of what I had to pay for it new on the boat. It appears you have had much better luck than I have, or for that matter, anyone I know personally with Mercury.

The reason I want to go to 4-stroke power now as opposed to the 2-stroke option is that the 4 strokes, at least in our area here, hold their value and last longer than the 2 strokes. Whether this is based in facts or not, opinion in my area is that generally when run equally as hard, a 4 stroke outboard will last at least 2 times as long. I really have no idea if this is true myself, but all the Texas Gulf Coast outboard guys that I know tell me this. Since they appraise value of outboards professionally, I have to consider what they say.
The E-Tecs have a really bad reputation for various reasons locally on the coast where I do business. For example, While I was hanging around yesterday getting in the way at the shop, one of the local professional guides in the Palacios TX area and I were discussing outboard repowering. I mentioned how I had heard nothing but good about E-Tec's, he started bending my ear. I do not know personally if anything he said was true, but I know he does a LOT of fishing out of boats and he has to have 100% reliability in his business. He tells me that the E-Tec uses a water cooled ECM. He says that this ECM containment is a weak link, and that saltwater corrosion will cause big troubles quick. Apparently, he did not think that running a saltwater cooling stream circulating in the engine around the ECM was a very good idea. I repeat, I don't know if this is true about these engines, but what people think of them directly affects what they are worth. For all I know, ALL outboards could be cooling their ECM's with saltwater. I DO know I liked the E-Tec specs better than any other when I looked at the numbers on paper, the alternator amps alone is a big plus.

I like the Yamaha controls and instrument systems the best out of any brand I have considered, but I am still trying to figure out how they interface with my Garmin electronics package and autopilot. Still searching for interface compatibility specs...I know this info has to be somewhere. I can't find any clear answers to this on the outboard manufacturers sites so I am going to Garmin for answers before making my final decision.

I will probably never sell my Outrage. I will have at least 20 times what its worth to anyone else invested in it when I complete my project here. I will leave this boat to my Grandkids when I'm gone, and I don't want them to have any clearcut evidence that Pappy was addled at this early of an ageSmile Even if this might be trueSmile


Oh, BTW, I will have a complete set of worn out teak doors from the super console that will need a good home when I am done with all this, I ordered a complete new set of all doors and compartments today for mine from Mike at Nautical Lumber. The personal page here was invaluable while we were discussing what I needed, I just directed him to my personal site where he could clearly see what I needed precisely while we were on the phone. Another fine example of how the personal pages here are priceless, thanks Joe!

 
Derwd24
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Posted on 04/09/13 - 7:05 PM
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Go over to the etecownersgroup.com website and do some reading to see how misinformed that guide is. There's also a fair amount of Etec owners from Tx on there too who would be more than happy to answer any questions you might have as a prospective buyer.


Dave - 1983 Outrage 22
 
rwethereyet
#18 Print Post
Posted on 04/09/13 - 7:09 PM
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I have a 1992 outrage 19 I....basically same boat as the the classic outrage 18. I recently repowered with the suzuki 140. I was attracted to 4 stroke technology, less maintenance, weight of the motor (420 lbs), and price (and additional 3 yrs of warranty). Performance is close to the original evinrude 150 I replaced. In regards to weight in the stern, I also have a 100 lb livewell in the stern....thats 520 lbs not including 2 adults fishing.....as stated in an earlier comment, flotation is excellent and the added weight is not an issue. I think the boat rides better with a little added weight in the stern....
All the brands are good, continue to do your research and choose the motor that fits your needs best....


rwethereyet
1992 Outrage 19' I, 2012 Suzuki DF 140
 
Joe Kriz
#19 Print Post
Posted on 04/09/13 - 7:13 PM
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Joe, I am going to use a tilt/trim electric /pull start version of the Yamaha 9.9 that is the reason it weighs a bit more than the 88 lbs in my calculations.

Don't forget to add another 40 pounds for that other battery for the electric start on that kicker.

No need for you to calculate anything.
All the weights are listed on the manufactures page and in our list.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...ticle_id=7

Yamaha 9.9 = 93 pounds
Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust = 102 pounds
Again, don't forget to add another 40 pounds for the battery.

Me personally, I have no use for another battery for electric start.
Have you seen my article here?
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=48

My moto: KISS
Keep It Simple Simon
and the less weight the better.

Whatever Floats Your Boat

 
Silentpardner
#20 Print Post
Posted on 04/09/13 - 7:47 PM
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I already keep 4 batteries under my console, 2for the 24V system and 1 for starting, 1 spare. I never have had batteries in the transom area even though I know that was the way they were originally. I like the ride of the boat with more weight in the center. I don't plan on carrying any more batteries with the addition of electric start kicker, I'll just utilize my spare for that.

 
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