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How Much Weight Is Too Much?
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| Geo |
Posted on 09/20/11 - 4:54 PM
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Given that new 4 stroke outboard engines weigh so much, when does the increased weight defeat the ability of a Whaler to stay upright when it is filled with water? For example, let's say we have a classic 16 foot 7 inch Nauset (or newer Montauk) outfitted with a very big modern motor. Have tests been run to see how the boat maintains its flotation as the weight of the motor is increased? This test could apply to any of the Whalers, so I would be interested to know if any data exist concerning this matter? I'm not referring to water simply accumulating in the boat, but I am instead wondering about the potential for a boat to roll over or to be pointed down stern first. Any info out there?
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| Tom W Clark |
Posted on 09/20/11 - 5:29 PM
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I am unaware of any testing as you describe but there is no outboard motor made, of any horsepower, that is heavy enough to actually pull the stern under. The swamped capacity of the 16'-7" Whaler is roughly 2000 pounds.
No matter how much, or how little weigh is on the transom, a Whaler can always be flipped.
Whaler CGP used to publish a maximum transom weight limit for the 17' Guardian/Alert (commercial 16'-7" Whaler). That was 410 pounds. I wouldn't exceed that. The good news is that there are no 90 HP motors anymore that weigh that much, though the Mercury 90 FourStroke is a little too close at 400 pounds.
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| Geo |
Posted on 09/20/11 - 5:40 PM
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2,000 lbs.!!!!! That really is amazing. Thanks Tom.
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| tedious |
Posted on 09/21/11 - 6:00 AM
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Geo wrote:
Given that new 4 stroke outboard engines weigh so much
That's like saying "Given that gelcoat disolves in water, should I actually launch my Whaler or just admire it on the trailer?" Which is to say you're about 5 years out of date there, Geo - your "given" is just not so any more, at least not universally.
When I put my F70 on my SuperSport 15, I was concerned about the 3 pound increase (260 vs. 257) over the 2-stroke Johnson 70 previously on the transom, but it turns out to be OK:-).
Tim
Edited by tedious on 09/21/11 - 6:40 PM |
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| Geo |
Posted on 09/21/11 - 4:11 PM
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Well, Tedious - Here is a Challenge -
Find me a 4-stroke 50 hp that will fit on my 1970 Sport that currently has a 1986 Yamaha 50 hp 2-stroke and that will weigh about the same. I'd be happy to buy it.
Geo
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/21/11 - 4:39 PM
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Why are you severely limiting yourself to a 4 stroke?
What does your Yamaha 50 weigh?
Here are the normal choices for a 13' model.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=78
If you want to overpower your hull like you already have, then here are the choices for a 15' model.
http://www.whalercentral.com/articles...icle_id=77
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| tedious |
Posted on 09/21/11 - 6:49 PM
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Geo wrote:
Well, Tedious - Here is a Challenge -
Find me a 4-stroke 50 hp that will fit on my 1970 Sport that currently has a 1986 Yamaha 50 hp 2-stroke and that will weigh about the same. I'd be happy to buy it.
Geo
From a quick search, it looks like the weight of your 2-stroke Yamaha 50 is 189 pounds, but that's with a 20" shaft, so your motor is probably less. I'd be thinking about the Honda BF50, at 214 pounds. But if you insist on overpowering your 13, your biggest problem is not going to be weight, but rather finding a modern 50 with a 15" shaft.
In the more conventional horsepower range, people have reported good luck with the eTec 30 at 146 pounds for the rope start, manual tilt version. It won't have the punch of your 50, but since it's quite a bit lighter your performance will probably be pretty good.
Tim
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| Geo |
Posted on 09/22/11 - 5:18 PM
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Tedious,
No point belaboring this subject. The story is clear. According to a Yamaha distributor web site my short shaft 50 h.p. is 175 lbs. The link for the info is below, but it loads a bit slowly:
http://www.yamaha.co.za/site/1778/view/50hmhos.html
So, as I was originally inquiring, what 4-stroke can match this in terms of h.p. relative to weight? I have yet to find one. Also, this has nothing to do with "overpowering" a boat. As you will see in my original inquiry, I was only pointing out that 4 strokes have a weight disadvantage, especially for a boat like mine. Regardless, thanks for your helpful suggestion concerning down sizing to the 30 hp.
Geo.
Edited by Geo on 09/22/11 - 5:26 PM |
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/22/11 - 5:46 PM
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Geo wrote:
Well, Tedious - Here is a Challenge -
Find me a 4-stroke 50 hp that will fit on my 1970 Sport that currently has a 1986 Yamaha 50 hp 2-stroke and that will weigh about the same. I'd be happy to buy it.
Geo
I took this to mean you were looking to buy a new 4 stroke 50hp motor and thereby exceeding the capacity plate on your 13' Sport....
Apparently you are not looking for a new engine after reading your original post #1 above.
Or are you?
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| Geo |
Posted on 09/22/11 - 6:22 PM
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Joe,
My original post #1 was only an inquiry as to how much weight is too much for any given size of Whaler, especially for a 16 ' 7" like I own. I had been thinking of increasing the hp on the '67 Nauset from 90 hp to something bigger. But, if I am restricted to a 4-stroke, it seemed to me that weight would be an issue when getting into the higher hp range with the modern 4 stokes, so I will most likely just stay with the 90 hp 2 stroke. Tedious got me side-tracked concerning my '70 Sport with the 2-stroke 50 hp. I'm not looking to re-power that one unless there is a new 50 hp short shaft that has a reasonably low weight. So far, the only 50 hp short shaft that seems reasonable is the Tohatsu 2-stroke which weighs in at around 207 lbs. But that seems like too much weight for the boat I currently have.
Thanks for all your good advice on this web site. I really do think you have a terrific group of people here.
Geo
Edited by Geo on 09/22/11 - 6:26 PM |
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| tedious |
Posted on 09/22/11 - 7:08 PM
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Geo wrote:
Tedious,
No point belaboring this subject. The story is clear. According to a Yamaha distributor web site my short shaft 50 h.p. is 175 lbs. The link for the info is below, but it loads a bit slowly:
http://www.yamaha.co.za/site/1778/view/50hmhos.html
So, as I was originally inquiring, what 4-stroke can match this in terms of h.p. relative to weight? I have yet to find one. Also, this has nothing to do with "overpowering" a boat. As you will see in my original inquiry, I was only pointing out that 4 strokes have a weight disadvantage, especially for a boat like mine. Regardless, thanks for your helpful suggestion concerning down sizing to the 30 hp.
Geo.
Actually, your original question was about the great weight of four strokes overwhelming Whaler transoms.
The fact that a lightweight four-stroke that will allow you to overpower your 13 doesn't exist does not make your generalization any less ignorant.
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/22/11 - 7:19 PM
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Geo wrote:
But, if I am restricted to a 4-stroke,
This statement always throws up a red flag for me...
Why are you restricted to a 4 stroke? Did someone tell you that you can't buy anything else but a 4 stroke?
My point: There are new 2 stroke engines that are just as clean or cleaner, use as little or less fuel, and may have more power out of the hole than a heavier 4 stroke engine....
Look at all options available. I hate to see anyone stuck with tunnel vision whether it be computers, cars, or outboard motors.... There are a lot of choices out there......
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| Geo |
Posted on 09/22/11 - 7:26 PM
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tedious wrote:
Geo wrote:
Tedious,
No point belaboring this subject. The story is clear. According to a Yamaha distributor web site my short shaft 50 h.p. is 175 lbs. The link for the info is below, but it loads a bit slowly:
http://www.yamaha.co.za/site/1778/view/50hmhos.html
So, as I was originally inquiring, what 4-stroke can match this in terms of h.p. relative to weight? I have yet to find one. Also, this has nothing to do with "overpowering" a boat. As you will see in my original inquiry, I was only pointing out that 4 strokes have a weight disadvantage, especially for a boat like mine. Regardless, thanks for your helpful suggestion concerning down sizing to the 30 hp.
Geo.
Actually, your original question was about the great weight of four strokes overwhelming Whaler transoms.
The fact that a lightweight four-stroke that will allow you to overpower your 13 doesn't exist does not make your generalization any less ignorant.
No need to get nasty unless you had a bad day which might be the case since you seem to be intent on making a big deal of this. I may just have to spin my Bowler Hat pretty soon!
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| Geo |
Posted on 09/22/11 - 7:42 PM
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O.K. I am trying to be polite. I checked and the 115 hp etech 2 stroke 20 inch is 374 lbs. Sounds too heavy for the 16' 7" in my humble opinion. Are poster allowed an opinion without others heaping scorn on them? I certainly hope so or what sort of community is this? I had expected that this site had some more civility. Would you please go back and look at my original post carefully. All I was asking for was some info as to when the weight was too much for a Whaler. Tom had a perfectly good answer and I thanked him for that. Why is there relentless pestering concerning such a simple question? Please lighten up.
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| Joe Kriz |
Posted on 09/22/11 - 7:50 PM
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You seem to keep changing things up Geo...
Now you are saying something about a 115 E-Tec.... Where did that come from...
Again, now you want to overpower a 16/17 hull which was only rated for a max of 100 hp.......
If your question was answered by Tom Clark, why all the other questions and posts after that.
We are here to help but this is getting too far off topic and I agree with you...
Thread Locked.......
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